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Brake controller for toad

Yahoo Message Number: 14727
My husband is a newbie to RVing. I'm a newbie to a toad. He wants to pull our Tahoe, like in photo at top of the Super C RV Group page. I told him we need one of those brake controllers that attaches in the road. He said we don't. We have a brake controller in RV for pulling a trailer. How do I convince home we need one of the controllers in the toad? What are some reasons for having one?

Also, what's the best tow bar to get for pulling such a vehicle. I've read that one with adjustable arms while towing is the kind to get. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Denise

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14729
That was my MH and Tahoe LTZ in the photo on our page. You definitely need a braking system for the Tahoe. We used a Brake Buddy, which we acquired for our first toad - a Colorado. I many states and provinces I believe you might be in violation of the law without supplemental braking for your toad. Somewhere on the web (I haven't looked at it for several years but it is updated annually) there is a schedule that covers all states and Canadian provinces and their rules for towing and braking.

While the Brake Buddy does the job, if I were starting from scratch I'd go for one of the units that is effectively a permanent installation so you don't have to continually take it and and re-install it. Several members of the group have them and you should get a lot of feedback in the next 24 hours.

Don


Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14730
I use road master invisibrake. Permanent mount works great. I think in ca. If ur toad weighs 5000 lbs or more its law. So if ur are in an accident u better have one. Adjustable tow bar arms make it an easy hook up.

Larry Payne  ⛳

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14731
I echo Don's advice, definitely have a supplemental braking system for your own safety; break-away protection; and to stay "legal" in most jurisdictions both in the U.S. and Canada. Convince hubby that since he believes in braking for an attached trailer (which may or may not weigh as much as a Tahoe) a logical expansion of his care should certainly extend to a toad!

There are many choices, fixed installation, removable, proportional, non-proportional, etc. I suggest some online research and talking to trusted advisers experienced in the RV world. This forum is one way to reach out, as you have done. I personally have a portable unit, the Roadmaster Even Brake. It is proportional, i.e. it senses the amount of my deceleration and applies a proportionate amount of braking to my toad. I personally prefer a portable installation because I have two separate vehicles I can tow, depending on whether or not the grandsons are with the DW and I or not. I can tow either our 2014 Ford Explorer Sport or a 2013 Ford Focus ST. Since the Focus is quite a bit lighter I have to change the "Force" and "Sensitivity" adjustments on the Even Brake, but I know what settings each take and in seconds it is set. After initial installation of the onboard electronics in each vehicle, now it only takes me a couple of minutes to install the Even Brake, and even less time to remove it at our destination. But like Don stated, the convenience of a permanently (out of sight) brake system sure has its merits.

I can tell you definitively that having it makes a big difference. I have a Freightliner-based Jayco Seneca (which is quite heavy) and I recently had the power plug disconnect from the Even Brake while coming through on I-80 in Pennsylvania in a construction zone. Some very big bumps where they are paving must have knocked it loose. I knew immediately it had shut down via the in-motorhome monitor panel going into alarm, and immediately could tell the difference whenever I braked. But I waited until the next rest area to stop and plug it back in. During the time it was off the "push" was quite obvious whenever I had to brake for traffic. After it was restored, bliss!

Safety first always, and good luck!

Rob
Akron, OH
2014 Jayco Seneca 37TS

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14732
Good points Rob. Our Brake Buddy has been used in four toads now and a fixed installation (I gather some can be transferred) would have been a lot more difficult. Same thing with our 50 amp Surge Protector. It has gone through 4 MHs whereas a permanent install would have been more difficult to move. Everything in life and RVing seems to be a trade off.

I usually drive in a manner that virtually eliminates the need for the toad brake (and with our two DPs and the exhaust brake I loved using it to get down to 15 mph and lower without even touching the service brakes). Having said that, we are currently at Poncho's Pond in Ludington MI for a week. On the way here I had to hammer the brakes twice and the BB activation light flashed. Sure makes a difference.

When we bought the Tahoe it was towed by a 41ft DP with a GVWR of 32,000 lbs and carrying capacity of about 5,000 lbs. The manufacturer makes it clear that the brakes are designed to stop the vehicle adequately up to the GVWR NOT the GCWR. If you are lightly loaded and have lots of room to spare before you exceed the GVWR then one might not legally need a toad brake - but very few MHs have that capacity.

When we downsized to the Kodiak it was after getting another lot and park model in FLA. Another resident was doing the same thing and traded a 40 ft DP (it was virtually new as his prior unit was replaced when he was parked at a campground along a river in NY State and a flood completely destroyed it) for a regular C. He was towing a Durango (old version) and did not have a toad brake. His trip home from the dealer convinced him very quickly that he needed a toad brake. He thought he had enough brakes to stop the combo but at one light he wasn't able to stop until he'd gone right through the intersection and a red light. Scared the hell out of him.

Don

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14733
Ditto for all the points listed above and I would like to add that in most of US and Canada a supplemental braking system is required for anything being towed greater than 0# to 5000#s plus. It is true insurance for those anti-lock brake moments or in the very unlikely event you have runaway because of a towbar failure.

You can find summaries of state laws at the Brake Buddy site or FMCA, GoodSamClub, etc.

Tom

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14735
Rob, whose baseplate do you have on your ST? We have a 2014 that we need to get fitted up to flat tow, didn't work too well on the tow dolly, sits too low and rubbed the air dam.
Thanks, Lee

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14736
I have a Blue Ox baseplate BX2640. I installed it myself, it went fairly well except for drilling through the hardened steel "bumper" behind the front fascia. You have to use a carbide hole saw designed for tile or masonry, it cuts through it quite easily. With this baseplate you do have the towbar attachment points and the safety cable attachment points permanently protruding from the grill. I keep the points painted with gloss black rustoleum and most folks don't notice them unless they are looking for them. I have a Roadmaster towbar, so I had to replace the car attachment ends with compatible hookups. I actually like them better. I have my towing electrical connection down by the right fog light in the black plastic section. I use bulkhead-mount flat 4 connection with cover that is nearly invisible when not plugged in.

The ST tows very nicely, put it in neutral and away you go. No column lock to deal with since it has pushbutton start. The only other "issue" was that you cannot use the center console 12-volt power point to supply your supplemental brake, it "times out" and shuts off. So I had to run a dedicated line to an outlet concealed under the dash. My Even Brake interface is hidden next to the fuse panel access to the left of the steering column. I pop it open and plug in the Even Brake ICX cord into it, and I am ready to go.

I also swapped out my original tail light assemblies with the Electric Focus versions. These tail light assemblies use an LED strip for tail lights, not a bulb. So that opened up a bulb socket (redundant in the Electric versions) that I use for an 1157 bulb as my tail/brake/turn lamps. So I did not have to cut into the Ford wiring with diodes. Those particular bulbs are only used when towing. They were $600 in 2013, they had to come from Ford since they were new. There may be aftermarket replacements now, or one possibly might find some used. I went with them as much for their daily look (LED taillight) as much as I did for towing! I have diodes in my Explorer and it does work just fine.

Hope that helps!



On Thursday, August 13, 2015 5:16 PM, "LEE GRINNELL racerlee434@... [SuperCrvgroup]"  wrote:

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14737
Thanks Rob. That is very useful information. All the baseplates I have seen for the ST do protrude through the grill when the tow bar is not attached. The electric Focus taillight information is very useful, I have been looking at mine with the intent of either adding a socket or tying into one of the existing sockets as they are using dual filament bulbs in each socket even though there is only one filament used.



On Friday, August 14, 2015 11:28 AM, "'Robert Ross Jr.' robbbyr@... [SuperCrvgroup]"  wrote:

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14738
The toad brakes are there also for emergency stops. In the absence of braking action on it, the toad, it will want to whip around. ..not good.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:"Don Leslie grandriver125@... [SuperCrvgroup]"
Date:Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 7:32 AM
Subject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] Brake controller for toad


Good points Rob. Our Brake Buddy has been used in four toads now and a fixed installation (I gather some can be transferred) would have been a lot more difficult. Same thing with our 50 amp Surge Protector. It has gone through 4 MHs whereas a permanent install would have been more difficult to move. Everything in life and RVing seems to be a trade off.

I usually drive in a manner that virtually eliminates the need for the toad brake (and with our two DPs and the exhaust brake I loved using it to get down to 15 mph and lower without even touching the service brakes). Having said that, we are currently at Poncho's Pond in Ludington MI for a week. On the way here I had to hammer the brakes twice and the BB activation light flashed. Sure makes a difference.

When we bought the Tahoe it was towed by a 41ft DP with a GVWR of 32,000 lbs and carrying capacity of about 5,000 lbs. The manufacturer makes it clear that the brakes are designed to stop the vehicle adequately up to the GVWR NOT the GCWR. If you are lightly loaded and have lots of room to spare before you exceed the GVWR then one might not legally need a toad brake - but very few MHs have that capacity.

When we downsized to the Kodiak it was after getting another lot and park model in FLA. Another resident was doing the same thing and traded a 40 ft DP (it was virtually new as his prior unit was replaced when he was parked at a campground along a river in NY State and a flood completely destroyed it) for a regular C. He was towing a Durango (old version) and did not have a toad brake. His trip home from the dealer convinced him very quickly that he needed a toad brake. He thought he had enough brakes to stop the combo but at one light he wasn't able to stop until he'd gone right through the intersection and a red light. Scared the hell out of him.

Don



Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14739
Errrr, I believe that at 2,000# here in CA

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
From:"Larry Payne larry@... [SuperCrvgroup]"
Date:Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 7:09 AM
Subject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] Brake controller for toad



I use road master invisibrake. Permanent mount works great. I think in ca. If ur toad weighs 5000 lbs or more its law. So if ur are in an accident u better have one. Adjustable tow bar arms make it an easy hook up.

Larry Payne  ⛳

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14740
Victor, do u know in ca if u have to have an air brake endorsement if ur mh's Gvwr is 26k

Larry Payne  ⛳

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14742
Ok ..... I'm thinking of going class a about 38 ft air suspension. 26 k GVW. I tow a little wrangler., so I wouldn't have to mess with the DMV. I been having a hard time getting the same answer repeated about the air brakes. ThanksLarry Payne   ⛳ On Aug 18, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Victor Burns vburns1@... [SuperCrvgroup]  wrote:
There's no endorsement

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14743
CA DMV has a nice chart explaining it all.  Pretty much if it's an RV under 40 feet, nothing is required.     From:"Larry Payne larry@... [SuperCrvgroup]" Date:Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:38 AMSubject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] Brake controller for toad
Ok ..... I'm thinking of going class a about 38 ft air suspension. 26 k GVW. I tow a little wrangler., so I wouldn't have to mess with the DMV. I been having a hard time getting the same answer repeated about the air brakes. ThanksLarry Payne   ⛳On Aug 18, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Victor Burns vburns1@... [SuperCrvgroup]  wrote:
There's no endorsement
 

Re: Brake controller for toad

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 14744
Our second DP was over 40 ft and it came with a California DMV/CHP video on the CA rules.  Don On Aug 19, 2015, at 6:41 AM, Victor Burns vburns1@... [SuperCrvgroup]  wrote:
CA DMV has a nice chart explaining it all.  Pretty much if it's an RV under 40 feet, nothing is required.     From:"Larry Payne larry@... [SuperCrvgroup]" Date:Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 3:38 AMSubject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] Brake controller for toad
Ok ..... I'm thinking of going class a about 38 ft air suspension. 26 k GVW. I tow a little wrangler., so I wouldn't have to mess with the DMV. I been having a hard time getting the same answer repeated about the air brakes. ThanksLarry Payne   ⛳On Aug 18, 2015, at 8:24 PM, Victor Burns vburns1@... [SuperCrvgroup]  wrote:
There's no endorsement