Super C RVs => SuperC Info and Discussions => Topic started by: smokie39157 on January 13, 2008, 10:44:05 pm
Title: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: smokie39157 on January 13, 2008, 10:44:05 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 391 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/391)Don, I know you and several other people have commented about the frame extensions done by some manufacturers including Jayco. It is a fact that on my 07 Jayco Kodiak Greyhawk 32SS, the front frame has been spliced and 12 inches added to the wheelbase. Also in the rear, behind the axle (end of original frame) they have added a 24 inch extension. Now, it appears to me that they did a good job of splicing all of this and reinforced it with good size plates and welds.
The INTERNET site that has all of the order information for the 07 medium duty trucks has been down for the last couple of days so I can't verify everything at this time. However, the best I remember is that they showed a wheelbase of 213.5 as one option and this is what Jayco used for the 32SS. Jayco then added the 12 inches to make the wheelbase 225 inches. Now, this also means they had to extend the drive train (drive shaft) a foot also. So, did Jayco (and others) modify this or buy it from another source, or is it all genuine GM parts. Maybe this is why GM will not honor the drive train warranty.
All of this is assuming that GM really does refuse to honor the warranty if it is needed. I cannot believe that a company would sell a product with no drive train warranty without "plainly" making the buyer aware of it. Does anybody know for a fact that GM will not honor the warranty? I do not see how Jayco could get away with this. Anyway, does anybody have anything new to add to this saga?
I just checked and the site is back up. The next size up in wheelbase is 239 inches. I suppose that is why Jayco added to the 213.5 to get 225 instead of going to the 239. This is the link:
It has some very good info. You can look at standard equipment and options via the menu on the left side. You can check all of your RPO codes (back of sun visor) and see what they "really" are.
Mike
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 14, 2008, 12:49:44 am
Yahoo Message Number: 393 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/393)Mike - I've had the specs since last March and have sent them to a few people on the forum on request. I just realized that I should post them to the files section. Anyone that would like the document can get it at:
I've also posted the GM Media release dated Aug 1/2006 that describes the enhancements for 2007 and the UltraRide Air Suspension brochure.
I sure wish that Jayco had simply used the 239 WB rather than extending.
I agree the welds and overlapping of the frame rail inserts look pretty good but the GM warranty problem is real. My dealer has been caught in the middle of this problem as well.
With a 2 year warranty, IMO anything GM won't cover Jayco had better cover.
I'm still PO'd that GM did not put the 5 year power train warranty on that Workhorse added after GM put it on all but medium duty trucks.
Don
On 13-Jan-08, at 10:44 PM, smokie39157 wrote:
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dmyhre943 on January 14, 2008, 10:41:06 am
Yahoo Message Number: 394 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/394) In the GM manual provided to ALL SVM's (Special Vehicle Manufacturers) under their "Upfitters" program, it states the following:
Alterations When modifying the wheelbase, SVMs assume full responsibility for: 1. compliance with applicable motor vehicle safety standards 2. warranty on items such as driveshafts, universal joints, center bearings and rear transmission tailshaft, transfer case and transmission case fractures, output shaft bushings, bearings, brakes, fuel systems and any other related component failures. Additionally, the modifier's owner manual must alert the customer that parts for the reworked area(s) are not available through the General Motors service parts system.
Note that it states that the parts are not available and that you must be alerted of that fact in your owner's manual....
Denny
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: smokie39157 on January 14, 2008, 11:48:20 am
Yahoo Message Number: 396 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/396)Thanks for that info Denny. Well, I certainly do not recall being made aware of this by the dealer or shown this in any manual. I suppose in some of the papers I signed, something was buried in their that I did not catch. I will check my "owners manual" again. Are they talking about the Kodiak owners manual from Chevy, or something Jayco gave me in the large box of papers for the MH ?
PS I have not had any problems so far, but if I ever do, this could be a big problem.
Mike
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dmyhre943 on January 14, 2008, 11:58:46 am
Has anyone affected by this wheelbase issue checked your VIN specific GM Build Sheet? Wouldn't this indicate the wheelbase of the chassis when it left the GM plant? If your rig has a longer WB then obviously it was stretched by someone other than GM and may affect the warranty.
For example, I checked our Seneca 34SS Build Sheet and it shows the GM RPO Code of FXA which indicates a 239" WB which corresponds to Jayco's literature for this model.
Obviously, I'm only addressing WB here, chassis extensions are another matter.
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 14, 2008, 05:59:41 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 402 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/402)In my case I slide under and looked at the insert after Rich said he found it. Also, there isn't a 225 inch w'b in the GM list so we know the w/b had to be extended. Had it been 213.5 I would not have been a buyer for our 32SS.
Don
On 14-Jan-08, at 5:40 PM, kemper_mm wrote:
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dane.goodwin on January 14, 2008, 11:45:36 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 405 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/405)Maybe we all should get together as a group and file a lawsuit against Jayco for all the issues discussed herein. A good attorney would take the case for a percentage and maybe we would all come out to some extent better. Dane
Quote
In my case I slide under and looked at the insert after Rich said he found it. Also, there isn't a 225 inch w'b in the GM list so we know the w/b had to be extended. Had it been 213.5 I would not have been a buyer for our 32SS.
Don
On 14-Jan-08, at 5:40 PM, kemper_mm wrote:
, Dmyhre943@ wrote:
In a message dated 1/14/2008 8:48:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, mfurr@ writes:
Are they talking about the Kodiak owners manual from Chevy, or something Jayco gave me in the large box of papers for the MH ?
It would have to be in the Jayco manual. One other thing to ask for from Jayco would be the "brakeinacurve" certification that NHTSA requires from the manufacturer. On models where the wheelbase has not been
extended,
Quote
the up-fitter can use a "pass-through" certification from the chassis manufacturer. An exception is where the wheelbase has been extended. The certification became a ruling recently because extending the wheelbase can adversely affect the four wheel ABS systems required on these vehicles.
Has anyone affected by this wheelbase issue checked your VIN specific GM Build Sheet? Wouldn't this indicate the wheelbase of the chassis when it left the GM plant? If your rig has a longer WB then obviously it was stretched by someone other than GM and may affect the
warranty.
Quote
For example, I checked our Seneca 34SS Build Sheet and it shows
the GM
Quote
RPO Code of FXA which indicates a 239" WB which corresponds to
Jayco's
Quote
literature for this model.
Obviously, I'm only addressing WB here, chassis extensions are another
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dmyhre943 on January 15, 2008, 12:08:19 am
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dane.goodwin on January 15, 2008, 04:31:16 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 409 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/409)You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the dealer but with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace or beef up and now not!!!!! Dane
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dmyhre943 on January 15, 2008, 04:49:25 pm
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Trx_racer on January 15, 2008, 09:21:07 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 411 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/411)*** TO ALL MEMBERS***
Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis.
I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be done.
Thank You,
Trx...
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 15, 2008, 09:56:59 pm
Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis.
I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be done.
Here's the link: http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/KodiakChassisClassC/photos/browse/5f1e (http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/KodiakChassisClassC/photos/browse/5f1e)
I normally just look in the photos link on the left after I sign-in.
Trx
, "Leslie, Don" wrote:
Quote
, "trx_racer"
wrote:
Quote
*** TO ALL MEMBERS***
Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis.
I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be
done.
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 15, 2008, 10:10:54 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 415 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/415)What you didn't indicate was that you were referring to the photo album for this forum. I assumed you were referring to an album you have on a photo site (I've got a three). So, if the forum owner didn't realize what you were saying there may be at least one other forum member who missed it as well. :)
Don
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 15, 2008, 10:19:36 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 416 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/416)I must be missing something. How does this explain chassis mods such as extended wheelbase or extended frame rails?
Don
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Trx_racer on January 15, 2008, 10:24:22 pm
Thanks, I try to be clearer in future posts. The pictures maybe information that was already out there in cyberspace. I could never find the sticker on the visor for my codes so I ask the dealership for the "Build Shee".
Hope it helps in one way or another.....
Trx
, "Leslie, Don" wrote:
Quote
What you didn't indicate was that you were referring to the photo
album for this forum. I
Quote
assumed you were referring to an album you have on a photo site
(I've got a three). So, if
Quote
the forum owner didn't realize what you were saying there may be at
least one other
Quote
forum member who missed it as well. :)
Don
, "trx_racer"
wrote:
Quote
*** TO ALL MEMBERS***
Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis.
I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be
done.
Quote
Thank You,
Trx...
, Dmyhre943@ wrote:
In a message dated 1/15/2008 1:31:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, agret@ writes:
You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the
dealer but
Quote
with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace or beef up and now not!!!!! Dane
Dane,
First of all, GM isn't going to do anything about your problem. All they did was to sell the cab/chassis to Jayco. And the dealer doesn't have an interest in your problem either since he has already made the sale, gotten your $$$, and truthfully, any issues with the coach, he feels, are Jayco's problem, because Jayco built the dang thing.
Your only recourse, IMHO, is to go after the RV manufacturer. They dictate what needs to be done, and ultimately, will pay the bill. Our advantage is that they know we are here, in numbers, to help or hurt their sales. The starting place is to contact Jayco on their website. Jayco's website appears to be oriented toward the customer, as they say, before AND after the sale. Send them a note on this link, _http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_ (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php)) , and tell them that you are a member of an RV group of owners dedicated to improve the quality of the Jayco product, and ask for their help in resolving this issue immediately. Explain that you will have the support of other owners in getting the word out as to the positive nature of their response.
Keep us in the loop on how Jayco responds.
Denny
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
I took it to mean, that in my case Gulfstream had ordered the chassis extend from GM. This I would think would help if drive train issues came up. You should be able to get the same thing from your GM dealer, then you can see if the wheelbase on your coach was done by GM.
Hope that helps.... Trx
, "Leslie, Don" wrote:
Quote
I must be missing something. How does this explain chassis mods
such as extended
Quote
wheelbase or extended frame rails?
Don
, "trx_racer"
wrote:
Quote
*** TO ALL MEMBERS***
Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis.
I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be
done.
Quote
Thank You,
Trx...
, Dmyhre943@ wrote:
In a message dated 1/15/2008 1:31:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, agret@ writes:
You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the
dealer but
Quote
with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace or beef up and now not!!!!! Dane
Dane,
First of all, GM isn't going to do anything about your problem. All they did was to sell the cab/chassis to Jayco. And the dealer doesn't have an interest in your problem either since he has already made the sale, gotten your $$$, and truthfully, any issues with the coach, he feels, are Jayco's problem, because Jayco built the dang thing.
Your only recourse, IMHO, is to go after the RV manufacturer. They dictate what needs to be done, and ultimately, will pay the bill. Our advantage is that they know we are here, in numbers, to help or hurt their sales. The starting place is to contact Jayco on their website. Jayco's website appears to be oriented toward the customer, as they say, before AND after the sale. Send them a note on this link, _http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_ (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php)) , and tell them that you are a member of an RV group of owners dedicated to improve the quality of the Jayco product, and ask for their help in resolving this issue immediately. Explain that you will have the support of other owners in getting the word out as to the positive nature of their response.
Keep us in the loop on how Jayco responds.
Denny
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 15, 2008, 10:59:51 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 419 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/419)I don't think this is the same thing (would others please jump in with views). Your chassis was not, IMO, extended. GS simply bought a chassis with a longer w/b (239 inches I assume since that is the only option for MHs above 213.5) rather than buy a shorter one and cut it into two between the front and rear axle, insert pieces of frame rail, weld them (and maybe bold them as well), put in a new longer drive shaft, modify the exhaust etc. (actually, Jayco doesn't do this, I gather they have another firm do it and I've forgotten its name) In your case the frame rails would be one piece from the front to beyond the rear axle (where GS or its subcontractor likely have welded on extensions to handle the box it put on). I don't think GM does a unit with frame rails as long as those on your MH. I wish Jayco had done this since I'd prefer the 239 (wow, what a ratio that would be - .612) and it would have left the GM warranty on the driveshaft in place.
Don
On 15-Jan-08, at 10:34 PM, trx_racer wrote:
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dmyhre943 on January 15, 2008, 11:19:52 pm
I don't think this is the same thing (would others please jump in with views). Your chassis was not, IMO, extended. GS simply bought a chassis with a longer w/b (239 inches I assume since that is the only option for MHs above 213.5) rather than buy a shorter one and cut it into two between the front and rear axle, insert pieces of frame rail, weld them (and maybe bold them as well), put in a new longer drive shaft, modify the exhaust etc. (actually, Jayco doesn't do this, I gather they have another firm do it and I've forgotten its name) In your case the frame rails would be one piece from the front to beyond the rear axle (where GS or its subcontractor likely have welded on extensions to handle the box it put on). I don't think GM does a unit with frame rails as long as those on your MH. I wish Jayco had done this since I'd prefer the 239 (wow, what a ratio that would be - .612) and it would have left the GM warranty on the driveshaft in place.
Don
On 15-Jan-08, at 10:34 PM, trx_racer wrote:
Don,
I took it to mean, that in my case Gulfstream had ordered the chassis extend from GM. This I would think would help if drive train issues came up. You should be able to get the same thing from your GM dealer, then you can see if the wheelbase on your coach was done by GM.
Hope that helps.... Trx
, "Leslie, Don" wrote:
I must be missing something. How does this explain chassis mods such as extended wheelbase or extended frame rails?
Don
, "trx_racer" wrote:
*** TO ALL MEMBERS***
Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis.
I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be done.
Thank You,
Trx...
, Dmyhre943@ wrote: > > > > In a message dated 1/15/2008 1:31:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > agret@ writes: > > You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the dealer but > with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace or > beef up and now not!!!!! Dane > > Dane, > > First of all, GM isn't going to do anything about your problem. All they > did was to sell the cab/chassis to Jayco. And the dealer doesn't have an > interest in your problem either since he has already made the sale, gotten your > $$$, and truthfully, any issues with the coach, he feels, are Jayco's problem, > because Jayco built the dang thing. > > Your only recourse, IMHO, is to go after the RV manufacturer. They dictate > what needs to be done, and ultimately, will pay the bill. Our advantage is > that they know we are here, in numbers, to help or hurt their sales. The > starting place is to contact Jayco on their website. Jayco's website appears to > be oriented toward the customer, as they say, before AND after the sale. > Send them a note on this link, _http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_ (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_) > (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php)) , and tell them that you > are a member of an RV group of owners dedicated to improve the quality of the > Jayco product, and ask for their help in resolving this issue immediately. > Explain that you will have the support of other owners in getting the word out > as to the positive nature of their response. > > Keep us in the loop on how Jayco responds. > > Denny > > > > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
Don is correct, Gulfstream bought your chassis with the 239" WB right from the GM factory. Your Build Sheet shows the same WB code of XFA (239")as ours does (see my post of 1/14/08). Intrestingly, your Build Sheet shows that your chassis was built the day before ours was built. Between RPO codes and vin specific Build Sheets we can learn a lot about our chassis.
Paul
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Trx_racer on January 16, 2008, 01:29:25 am
Yahoo Message Number: 422 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/422)So, Paul
I guess that means we are related...lol
I still believe Don will find the exact W/B for his rig if he was to get a "build sheet" from a GM dealer. If he did get a copy of the "B/S", he would have a stronger argument with or against Jayco.
Trx....
, "kemper_mm" wrote:
Quote
, Don Leslie wrote:
I don't think this is the same thing (would others please jump in with views). Your chassis was not, IMO, extended. GS simply bought a chassis with a longer w/b (239 inches I assume since that is the only option for MHs above 213.5) rather than buy a shorter one and cut it into two between the front and rear axle, insert pieces of frame
rail,
Quote
weld them (and maybe bold them as well), put in a new longer drive shaft, modify the exhaust etc. (actually, Jayco doesn't do this, I gather they have another firm do it and I've forgotten its name) In your case the frame rails would be one piece from the front to beyond the rear axle (where GS or its subcontractor likely have welded on extensions to handle the box it put on). I don't think GM does a unit with frame rails as long as those on your MH. I wish Jayco had done this since I'd prefer the 239 (wow, what a ratio that would be -
.612)
Quote
and it would have left the GM warranty on the driveshaft in place.
Don
On 15-Jan-08, at 10:34 PM, trx_racer wrote:
Don,
I took it to mean, that in my case Gulfstream had ordered the chassis extend from GM. This I would think would help if drive train issues came up. You should be able to get the same thing from your GM
dealer,
Quote
then you can see if the wheelbase on your coach was done by GM.
Hope that helps.... Trx
, "Leslie, Don" wrote:
I must be missing something. How does this explain chassis mods such as extended wheelbase or extended frame rails?
Don
, "trx_racer" wrote: > > *** TO ALL MEMBERS*** > > Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics of a > document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should answer > some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis. > > I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it
> > agret@ writes: > > > > You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the dealer but > > with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace or > > beef up and now not!!!!! Dane > > > > Dane, > > > > First of all, GM isn't going to do anything about your problem. All > they > > did was to sell the cab/chassis to Jayco. And the dealer
doesn't
Quote
> have an > > interest in your problem either since he has already made the sale, > gotten your > > $$$, and truthfully, any issues with the coach, he feels, are > Jayco's problem, > > because Jayco built the dang thing. > > > > Your only recourse, IMHO, is to go after the RV
manufacturer.
Quote
They > dictate > > what needs to be done, and ultimately, will pay the bill. Our > advantage is > > that they know we are here, in numbers, to help or hurt their > sales. The > > starting place is to contact Jayco on their website. Jayco's > website appears to > > be oriented toward the customer, as they say, before AND after the > sale. > > Send them a note on this link, > _http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_ (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_) > > (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php)) , and tell them > that you > > are a member of an RV group of owners dedicated to improve the > quality of the > > Jayco product, and ask for their help in resolving this issue > immediately. > > Explain that you will have the support of other owners in getting > the word out > > as to the positive nature of their response. > > > > Keep us in the loop on how Jayco responds. > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > > >
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Ron Hall on January 16, 2008, 04:32:13 am
Yahoo Message Number: 423 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/423)Not sure about Jayco. Gulf Stream use Mor/Ryde to do their chassis mods. Chassis come to GS plant with all chassis upgrades already done. Including floor frame and basement compartment frames. When I did a plant tour last June the frames had the paint job done to it also. We plan on being in Elkhart next April. One of the places we plan to visit is Jayco. Hope I get a chance to see as much as I did at GS. Here is a link to Mor/Ryde. http://www.morryde.com/index.php (http://www.morryde.com/index.php) For anyone that is interested I will be with the RV.Net rally in Elkhart, IN. April 23 to 28/2008. Here is a link if you are interested. http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20789277.cfm (http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/20789277.cfm)
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Ron Hall on January 16, 2008, 04:42:45 am
Yahoo Message Number: 424 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/424)Guess I missed it. Mor/Ryde has already been mentioned.
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 16, 2008, 10:42:21 am
I know the exact wheel base for my rig - when it left GM and when it left Jayco. When it left GM it was 213.5. When it left Jayco it was 225. When I get underneath I can clearly see the overlapping frame rail that was inserted after they cut. It extended the w/b by 11.5 inches. Then, as I slide to the back I find another extension of the frame rails to handle the length of the MH built on it. I fail to see what I'd get from the build order that I can't get from my eyes? BTW, you don't see a frame extension behind the rear axle on your order but my guess is that you may have a very such an extension. Note that your build order only refers to w/b and provides no indication of frame length. If you crawl underneath my guess is that you may find an extension of one to 2 ft, if not a bit more (is your MH 35 feet long?).
Keep in mind that the issue here is the warranty. If GM says "that particular item isn't covered by us then it has to be covered by either Jayco or the chassis extender. If the both deny liability during the first two years if I had a problem with the extensions or the drive train, then I'd look at taking them to court.
My understanding from something posted on RV.net a while back is that Ford lays out specs for extensions and if the standard is met Ford covers the chassis and engine. As you can see in the material Denny posted, GM just washes its hands of the warranty.
What annoys me more than this is that the same basic engine (well, the higher HP version yet) is used by Workhorse Chassis Corp in its A gassers and it has put the 5 year warranty on the engine stating it did so when GM increased the warranty. I find it unfair that we are restricted to two years when a less stressed version is used in a much lighter MH.
D
On 16-Jan-08, at 1:29 AM, trx_racer wrote:
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Kemper_mm on January 16, 2008, 02:12:35 pm
I know the exact wheel base for my rig - when it left GM and when it left Jayco. When it left GM it was 213.5. When it left Jayco it was 225. When I get underneath I can clearly see the overlapping frame rail that was inserted after they cut. It extended the w/b by 11.5 inches. Then, as I slide to the back I find another extension of the frame rails to handle the length of the MH built on it. I fail to see what I'd get from the build order that I can't get from my eyes? BTW, you don't see a frame extension behind the rear axle on your order but my guess is that you may have a very such an extension. Note that your build order only refers to w/b and provides no indication of frame length. If you crawl underneath my guess is that you may find an extension of one to 2 ft, if not a bit more (is your MH 35 feet long?).
Keep in mind that the issue here is the warranty. If GM says "that particular item isn't covered by us then it has to be covered by either Jayco or the chassis extender. If the both deny liability during the first two years if I had a problem with the extensions or the drive train, then I'd look at taking them to court.
My understanding from something posted on RV.net a while back is that Ford lays out specs for extensions and if the standard is met Ford covers the chassis and engine. As you can see in the material Denny posted, GM just washes its hands of the warranty.
What annoys me more than this is that the same basic engine (well, the higher HP version yet) is used by Workhorse Chassis Corp in its A gassers and it has put the 5 year warranty on the engine stating it did so when GM increased the warranty. I find it unfair that we are restricted to two years when a less stressed version is used in a much lighter MH.
D
On 16-Jan-08, at 1:29 AM, trx_racer wrote:
So, Paul
I guess that means we are related...lol
I still believe Don will find the exact W/B for his rig if he was to get a "build sheet" from a GM dealer. If he did get a copy of the "B/S", he would have a stronger argument with or against Jayco.
Trx....
, "kemper_mm" wrote:
, Don Leslie wrote:
I don't think this is the same thing (would others please jump in with views). Your chassis was not, IMO, extended. GS simply bought a chassis with a longer w/b (239 inches I assume since that is the only option for MHs above 213.5) rather than buy a shorter one and cut it into two between the front and rear axle, insert pieces of frame rail, weld them (and maybe bold them as well), put in a new longer drive shaft, modify the exhaust etc. (actually, Jayco doesn't do this, I gather they have another firm do it and I've forgotten its name) In your case the frame rails would be one piece from the front to beyond the rear axle (where GS or its subcontractor likely have welded on extensions to handle the box it put on). I don't think GM does a unit with frame rails as long as those on your MH. I wish Jayco had done this since I'd prefer the 239 (wow, what a ratio that would be - .612) and it would have left the GM warranty on the driveshaft in place.
Don
On 15-Jan-08, at 10:34 PM, trx_racer wrote:
> Don, > > I took it to mean, that in my case Gulfstream had ordered the chassis > extend from GM. This I would think would help if drive train issues > came up. You should be able to get the same thing from your GM dealer, > then you can see if the wheelbase on your coach was done by GM. > > Hope that helps.... > Trx > > , "Leslie, Don" > wrote: > > > > I must be missing something. How does this explain chassis mods > such as extended > > wheelbase or extended frame rails? > > > > Don > > > > , "trx_racer"
> wrote: > > > > > > *** TO ALL MEMBERS*** > > > > > > Please take a look at my album, I have posted a couple of pics > of a > > > document I asked my dealer to get for me. This i believe should > answer > > > some, maybe all questions regard modded chassis. > > > > > > I would have posted pics here, but don't know how or if it can be > done. > > > > > > Thank You, > > > > > > Trx... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , Dmyhre943@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 1/15/2008 1:31:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > > > agret@ writes: > > > > > > > > You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the > dealer but > > > > with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace > or > > > > beef up and now not!!!!! Dane > > > > > > > > Dane, > > > > > > > > First of all, GM isn't going to do anything about your > problem. All > > > they > > > > did was to sell the cab/chassis to Jayco. And the dealer doesn't > > > have an > > > > interest in your problem either since he has already made the > sale, > > > gotten your > > > > $$$, and truthfully, any issues with the coach, he feels, are > > > Jayco's problem, > > > > because Jayco built the dang thing. > > > > > > > > Your only recourse, IMHO, is to go after the RV manufacturer. > They > > > dictate > > > > what needs to be done, and ultimately, will pay the bill. Our > > > advantage is > > > > that they know we are here, in numbers, to help or hurt their > > > sales. The > > > > starting place is to contact Jayco on their website. Jayco's > > > website appears to > > > > be oriented toward the customer, as they say, before AND after > the > > > sale. > > > > Send them a note on this link, > > > _http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_ (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php_) > > > > (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php) (http://www.jayco.com/php/about/contact.form.php)) , and tell > them > > > that you > > > > are a member of an RV group of owners dedicated to improve the > > > quality of the > > > > Jayco product, and ask for their help in resolving this issue > > > immediately. > > > > Explain that you will have the support of other owners in > getting > > > the word out > > > > as to the positive nature of their response. > > > > > > > > Keep us in the loop on how Jayco responds. > > > > > > > > Denny > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in > shape. > > > > > > > > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 (http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489) > > > > > > > > > > > >
Trx,
Don is correct, Gulfstream bought your chassis with the 239" WB right from the GM factory. Your Build Sheet shows the same WB code of XFA (239")as ours does (see my post of 1/14/08). Intrestingly, your Build Sheet shows that your chassis was built the day before ours was built. Between RPO codes and vin specific Build Sheets we can learn a lot about our chassis.
Paul
"I fail to see what I'd get from the build order that I can't get from my eyes?"
Don,
Obtaining your specific Build Sheet will reveal a lot more about your rig than just the wheelbase. For example, you will find where GM first shipped the chassis, when and where it was built and specific warranty information, etc.
Regarding warranties, my VIN/Build Sheet clearly shows different mileages & time limits for various chassis components, not just a simple 5 year term. They include 24/unlimited Bumper to Bumper to as high as 60/100000 Medium Duty Diesel Engine with $100 Deduct after 36/36, etc.
You can go to www.dieselplace.com and request a free VIN & Build Sheet. Just scroll down to the section titled "Official GM Information" and then check "VIN Check Requests". This service requires regerstering with The Diesel Place and a few day wait to receive your data.
Regarding chassis modifications, they are very common in the RV industry and, yes, they may affect warranties. Many "high end" diesel pushers have extended wheelbases and frame extensions. Some are done by Mor/Ryde and other shops and some are done in house. Winnebago is reputed to be among the best at doing this.
I don't doubt for a moment that you are seeing a wheelbase and/or frame modification on your MH.. I just believe your Vin specific build sheet data will provide you with more data.
Paul
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Greg Gimlick on January 16, 2008, 02:19:02 pm
You can go to www.dieselplace.com and request a free VIN & Build Sheet. Just scroll down to the section titled "Official GM Information" and then check "VIN Check Requests". This service requires regerstering with The Diesel Place and a few day wait to receive your data.
Does this require you have a diesel coach or will they do one for the gas powered 32SS guys too?
Take care, Greg
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Paul Kemper on January 16, 2008, 02:33:20 pm
You can go to www.dieselplace. com and request a free VIN & Build Sheet. Just scroll down to the section titled "Official GM Information" and then check "VIN Check Requests". This service requires regerstering with The Diesel Place and a few day wait to receive your data.
Does this require you have a diesel coach or will they do one for the gas powered 32SS guys too?
Take care, Greg
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date: 1/16/2008 9:01 AM
Greg,
They may also supply VIN/Build sheet info for gas rigs too as their home page shows a heading for "GM Gassers" under their "Other Vehicle" section.
Paul
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Don Leslie on January 16, 2008, 02:56:13 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 429 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/429)Paul, you have a diesel and there is a different warranty period for the engine vs the chassis. There is only 24 months on the Kodiak with 8.1. GM's material makes it clear that MDT's do not get the 100,000 miles warranty it put on everything else.
I still question what the build sheet that Trx posted will give me. I have the GM Kodiak order form (which I posted in files) and above my visor is the label that contains the codes that are applicable to my motorhome. I checked off the codes that are on the label to the build list and they seem to provide exactly what Trx's build sheet covers.
There are several differences and I assume they are due to diesel vs gas and perhaps length.
Trx's diesel engine is governed at 75 mph. My 8.1 gas is not. He has a front stabilizer, I do not. GS took GM seats, Jayco took it without seats. He got auto engine shut down, I did not (again a diesel feature I think). We both have 4.78 rear axle ratios. He Michelins and I have Goodyears (if his Michelin are XRV's then I'm really happy to have GY) but his rear has highway truck tread and mine have RV tread. Both were assembled in Flint. All of that comes from that label and it seems to cover the build sheet items.
So, I seem to have all the info that is on the two pages that Trx posted. Am I missing something?
Don
On 16-Jan-08, at 2:12 PM, kemper_mm wrote:
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dmyhre943 on January 16, 2008, 03:02:02 pm
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dane.goodwin on January 16, 2008, 03:18:57 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 431 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/431)Can someone give me the website to get my spec sheets on the 08 Kodiak. I am in a locked horns fight now with Jayco and GM over the chassis and suspension. I have sent a registered letter to the CEO of Jayco and each of you should as well. His address is:
Mr Wilbur Vontrager 903 South Main Street Middlebury, Indiana 46540
I bet if enough of us complain we will get some relief and be sure to send it registered return receipt requested,
Dane
Quote
Mike - I've had the specs since last March and have sent them to a few people on the forum on request. I just realized that I should post them to the files section. Anyone that would like the document can get it at:
I've also posted the GM Media release dated Aug 1/2006 that describes the enhancements for 2007 and the UltraRide Air Suspension brochure.
I sure wish that Jayco had simply used the 239 WB rather than
extending.
Quote
I agree the welds and overlapping of the frame rail inserts look pretty good but the GM warranty problem is real. My dealer has been caught in the middle of this problem as well.
With a 2 year warranty, IMO anything GM won't cover Jayco had better cover.
I'm still PO'd that GM did not put the 5 year power train warranty on that Workhorse added after GM put it on all but medium duty trucks.
Don
On 13-Jan-08, at 10:44 PM, smokie39157 wrote:
Don, I know you and several other people have commented about the frame extensions done by some manufacturers including Jayco. It
is a
Quote
fact that on my 07 Jayco Kodiak Greyhawk 32SS, the front frame has been spliced and 12 inches added to the wheelbase. Also in the
rear,
Quote
behind the axle (end of original frame) they have added a 24 inch extension. Now, it appears to me that they did a good job of splicing all of this and reinforced it with good size plates and welds.
The INTERNET site that has all of the order information for the 07 medium duty trucks has been down for the last couple of days so I can't verify everything at this time. However, the best I remember is that they showed a wheelbase of 213.5 as one option and this is what Jayco used for the 32SS. Jayco then added the 12 inches to make the wheelbase 225 inches. Now, this also means they had to extend the drive train (drive shaft) a foot also. So, did Jayco (and others) modify this or buy it from another source, or is it all genuine GM parts. Maybe this is why GM will not honor the drive train warranty.
All of this is assuming that GM really does refuse to honor the warranty if it is needed. I cannot believe that a company would sell a product with no drive train warranty without "plainly" making the buyer aware of it. Does anybody know for a fact that GM will not honor the warranty? I do not see how Jayco could get away with this. Anyway, does anybody have anything new to add to this saga?
I just checked and the site is back up. The next size up in wheelbase is 239 inches. I suppose that is why Jayco added to the 213.5 to get 225 instead of going to the 239. This is the link:
It has some very good info. You can look at standard equipment and options via the menu on the left side. You can check all of your RPO
Title: Re: GM Drive train Warranty on modified chassis???
Post by: Dane.goodwin on January 16, 2008, 03:26:03 pm
Yahoo Message Number: 432 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/432)-Website did not good see my last post on the action I am taking. Dane
-- In KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com (KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com)
Quote
In a message dated 1/15/2008 1:31:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, agret@... writes:
You may be right but I am fighting today not only with the dealer but with GM and Jayco on the springs as they had agreed to replace or beef up and now not!!!!! Dane
Dane,
First of all, GM isn't going to do anything about your problem.
All they
Quote
did was to sell the cab/chassis to Jayco. And the dealer doesn't
have an
Quote
interest in your problem either since he has already made the sale,
gotten your
Quote
$$$, and truthfully, any issues with the coach, he feels, are
Jayco's problem,
Quote
because Jayco built the dang thing.
Your only recourse, IMHO, is to go after the RV manufacturer.
They dictate
Quote
what needs to be done, and ultimately, will pay the bill. Our
advantage is
Quote
that they know we are here, in numbers, to help or hurt their
sales. The
Quote
starting place is to contact Jayco on their website. Jayco's
website appears to
Quote
be oriented toward the customer, as they say, before AND after the