Yahoo Message Number: 1670 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1670)
OK, I am supposed to be headed for Arlington, Texas to stage for work on Hurricane Ike, but my coach batteries are dead. Second time it happened, and I can't seem to find the problem. The battery clamps, which are connected to only a cloth or vinyl strap, are also heavily corroded, and I will post the photos on Yahoo. If anyone has any ideas, I would really appreciate your thoughts.
I may have mentioned that since Four Winds had replaced the front cap on the coach because the old one was leaking, I have had 10 times more leaks with the new cap. I finally found the problem this morning. The front trim piece along each side of the front cap that wraps downward and under the cap had a rubber insert covering the screws that hold the front cap to the side cap. When I removed the rubber insert on each side, I found the absolute worst workmanship you could ever imagine. Whoever attached the front cap to the sides had to be blind, because it looked like he simply drilled hole after hole in the trim until he could find something to attach a screw to. He/she then simply left the holes uncaulked, and rain collecting in the trim channel simply flowed into the walls, then the cab of the coach. I will post those photos as well.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1671 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1671)
I have the photos posted of the battery compartment and the front cap. The cap was posted with the album entitled "Four Winds Warranty Repair" and the other is under "Battery Straps."
Some good is coming out of this un-nerving experience. I previously mentioned a neighbor that has published 6 books on aircraft safety. He recently suggested he could write a few articles relating to RV safety issues, and get them published in RV magazines. He felt it may have a positive effect on how coaches are built in the future. I can't convince Four Winds to buy their coach back, so at least others may not have to go through this experience. The purpose would not be to bash Thor/Four Winds, but rather to better educate RV owners and potential owners. His focus would be on the importance of weight distribution as a safety concern, but would also address workmanship and quality since my coach so graphically illustrates that issue.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1672 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1672)
, Dmyhre943@... wrote:
Denny,
I hate to sound cynical... oh well, what the heck... no I don't :-) I
can't think of any of the major RV magazines that would accept the
sort of critical article that would actually do some good. Too bad
your friend won't take on the book project.
Good luck with the storm duty... definitely a noble effort!
Bill
Yahoo Message Number: 1673 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1673)
Bill,
You are right... but he seems to feel he can cover the subject without a critical eye... just inform the possibiities, perhaps the extremes, without aiming darts at any one manufacturer. He didn't think a book would work... not enough interest by the general public.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1674 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1674)
I should add that this guy is a retired aeronautics professor of 35 years at a university near Elkhart, and flew over the area nearly every day while certifying his students. When he saw the photos of the flooded motorhomes on my blog, he was not surprised... several times he had noticed chassis's sitting in flooded parking areas or sitting in mud for several weeks. He also has family members in the RV industry in Elkhart, with valid inside information to share. In other words, he has a lot of resources besides my experiences to write about.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1675 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1675)
That is one of the problems with FMCA - it is owned by the members for the members but as far as being unbiased and helpful with respect to manufacturers I have developed the view that that is rarely the case. FMCA must worry about lost advertising revenue from manufacturers if they are honest. Some of the reviews are a joke. Talk about pussy footing around weight and other problems. I rarely do more than glance through these mags now before just tossing them on the pile.
Don
Yahoo Message Number: 1676 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1676)
Still trying to resolve the battery problem... both batteries are dead, the 12 volt lights in the coach are very dimmed, and leaving the inverter turned on all night with shore power on did not help. the idiot gauge shows 0 voltage for the batteries, and the battery acid level is full. I really need the system working when I get to Houston because I will have to dry camp for several days or even a couple weeks.
How does the coach typically keep the batteries charged up? Is it the inverter? converter? I have never had to think about this problem before.
Any help will be appreciated.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1677 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1677)
Thanks for the photos of cap seal, mine had a leak in front and finally gave up and took it in, bet it could of been that as it was
along that area. Does that top gasket just fit back in or how is it kept in channel ??
Yahoo Message Number: 1678 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1678)
OK, lets' start from the top. You don't have an inverter unless you can run your 110 wall outlet stuff without firing up a generator. you have a converter. That's what charges your batteries from plugging your rig in. It's basically a smart transformer that turns 110 ac into 14.5 dc at a variable current depending on how bad your batteries are drained, anywhere from a trickle charge, to a slam charge.
If your rig's like mine, it's under your bed. There are a couple fuses on mine, I don't know how old yours is, so I don't know what model you have, some are fused, some not. Lift up the bed and see if there's a silver box that says converter or something similar on it... It might even say inverter because one of the companies that makes these has inverter in the name. If you find the box, look for fuses and circuit breakers on the side of it. (fuses are for the dc output side, cb for the ac input side) Check those fuses if they're blown, that's your problem.
If not, one of three things is going on. 1) your batterys are bad, take them to a autoshop and have them tested, they should do if for free, this puts the battery under a load, to see if it will hold and take a charge. 2) your converter is bad, use a meter if you have one and know how to use one, use an idiot light if that's the best you have, and with your rig plugged into shore power, test the DC output of the converter, with a meter, it should read about 14 volts give or take a little, with an idiot light, from the power output terminal to the chasse ground, it should be bright. 3) you have a bad battery cable or other wiring issue within the coach. I can't talk you through that by Email, take it to someone who does electrical work.
Morrigan
Yahoo Message Number: 1679 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1679)
Denny
It's the converter that charges the batteries, make sure you check the back of the converter that the fuses are not blown. Not sure what would have caused the total loss to the batteries.
Yahoo Message Number: 1680 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1680)
.Not for sure but being plugged into shore power should do the charging I don't think you need the inverter turned on.
Also running the generator should charge the batteries. My battery died and wouldn't keep charge and I was told
that it had been overfilled and that killed it ??!! I hadn't really touched it but I have to admit I did fill it above the line.
Got new one and so far all is good
Yahoo Message Number: 1681 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1681)
Denny,
Hope springs eternal and I reckon any publicity of our concerns is still some sort of step in the right direction. On the other hand, we've all read years and years of RV magazine product reviews and test drives. I don't recall any recent 4-Winds product test drive reviews but I'd lay odds that their idea of a bold critical comment was something along the lines of concern over the placement of a soap dish or the like. ::)
Bill
Yahoo Message Number: 1682 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1682)
Don's correct on this regarding the FMCA magazine. However I believe
the most extreme bias of this kind can be found in the Good Sam
magazine followed pretty closely by Motorhome.
Denny your friend might have some luck with the Escapee's magazine.
They seem to be less concerned over the consequences of recognizing
and publishing what's real.
Bill
Yahoo Message Number: 1683 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1683)
Just a soft rubber insert that fits in two channels... easy to remove and reinstall...really serves no purpose, since it holds water in the channel and turns to mold when it rains.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1684 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1684)
Thanks Morrigan,
I have both an inverter and converter. The inverter seems to be working ok as well as the converter... no blown fuses, CB's and good output on the converter. The transfer switch is working, at least the green light in the box says it is working.
The batteries charge up quickly when I start the engine and run it for a half hour. Turn the engine off, start the genset, and they discharge with the 12 volt lights on.. Plug into shore power and they still discharge. Is there some kind of switch that switches from the engine charging to the shore power/genset?
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1685 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1685)
OK, I can check the voltage at the batteries when fully discharged and shore power on or genset running, and there is no voltage coming to the batteries to charge them up. Start the engine and almost immediately I have the full voltage going to the batteries. I hear a "click" when the engine starts to charge the batteries, so whatever is clicking may be the key...Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1686 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1686)
I found the "clicking" sound to be coming from a solenoid attached to the frame and located near the battery compartment..there is a fuse attached to the solenoid and it is ok, and when I start the engine, the solenoid will "click", which I assume it is closing a connection to the engine. When I turn on the genset or plug into shore power, the solenoid does not make any clicking sound. Could that mean the solenoid should be replaced? Thanks,
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1687 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1687)
Ok then, thanks for the information, I won't be so hesitant in future about messing with it. I had wondered about putting a type
of guttering into the channeling but wasn't sure if it would work, to try and help with the black streaks.
Yahoo Message Number: 1688 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1688)
not that I know of... Sounds like a wiring problem... if you're capable of doing a continuity check, I would conduct a continuity check from the converter to the battery terminals with the batteries disconnected and the rig not plugged in... I bet you find there's no continuity from the converter to the battery. You have a wiring problem.
Morrigan
I wrote this and then was thinking before I sent it... there is a switch (but it's not a manual switch, it's a Silicon control buss transfer switch) in the converter on my rig, that switches the source of the bat charge between engine, shore and Gen...But it's not user serviceable, and if you're putting out 14 volts at the output of the converter when plugged to shore power, and when running the generator, then that switch is not the problem... If you can't do continuity, try running the Gen, or plugging in, and then looking at the output of the converter, not at the converter, but at the battery...
Yahoo Message Number: 1689 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1689)
no. the solenoid is fine. you generally don't hear a solenoid click back. That solenoid is set up because the coach battery is isolated from the house batteries. (so you don't drain everything down and be unable to start anything, in the boonies) It can also be manualy operated (at least on mine) to use the house batteries to start the coach. If you're putting out of the converter and it ain't making it to the battery, you have a wiring issue.
Morrigan
Yahoo Message Number: 1690 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1690)
I started testing red wires around the converter to make sure they were hot, and moving wires around. All the wires checked out ok... then all of a sudden, the fan went on on the converter, which told me something was drawing enough current to warm up the converter. Checked the idiot meter in the coach and the shore power was charging the batteries thru the converter. So I must have a loose wire in close proximity to the converter. Then I had to got out for dinner. Tomorrow I will tighten up the connections under the bed and it should work... thanks for your help Morrigan, I really appreciate it.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1691 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1691)
Hey, I'm new to Kodiaks, Our conquest 33' is less than two weeks old, but I've been chaseing electrons for the Navy for 28 years now, first as a Sonar Technician Submarines, now as a Civilian marine electrician and Electronics mechanic for Puget Sound Naval shipyard... If I can fix a Nuclear submarine, I can figure out one of these.
Morrigan
Yahoo Message Number: 1692 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1692)
Well, welcome to the group... and again, I appreciate your help. I am having the batteries checked this AM just to be sure b/f I head south.
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1694 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1694)
I solved another problem this AM... for weeks my steps wouldn't work because there was no power to the switch. It just kept coming in and going out whenever I opened/closed the door. It had worked fine before Four Winds took it for repairs and returned it not working. Well, I discovered on the fuse block, Four Winds spells "step switch" differently than most....A-W-N-I-N-G!!
I found an empty fuse slot where it said awning, and an orange wire going to the slot...but I knew my awning worked fine, so I put the fuse in there and woolaa! Now the steps work!!.
Of course, now I can't get the "battery disconnect" light to turn off, even when all the wires are disconnected. I am sure the little green light should go off when the batteries are disconnected, but it stays on all the time. Any ideas??
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1696 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1696)
Denny,
I have to check my fuses today, since my water pump stopped working
yesterday. I have never disconnected my batteries, so I don't know what
affect that has on the disconnect switch.
I also don't have the corrosion that you have in the battery tray, but
you probably could have guessed that. It also helps that we live in New
Mexico were it is usually dry. Even though I have driven an salted
roads some.
David
Yahoo Message Number: 1697 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1697)
I just called an RV friend of mine, and I guess the little green light stays on all the time when you are on shore power. I will see... that is likely what is happening. One thought if your fuse to the water pump isn't blown. The ground wire from the pump could be corroded from the moisture... it can be cleaned and reattached. Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1698 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1698)
If your talking about the light on the steps, the step power usually
comes from the engine batteries and not the coach batteries.
Yahoo Message Number: 1699 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1699)
Yes, and what I find interesting is that I have a battery connection under the hood (battery is below the co-pilot). My Greyhawk is in a storage location and I always disconnect the battery "under the hood" (not under the steps) when we leave it. Yet, when I open the side entrance door the steps come out. So, I'm not too sure just what I'm disconnecting.
Don
On 15-Sep-08, at 2:27 PM, nchorselover55 wrote:
Yahoo Message Number: 1700 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1700)
My step switch is powered by the coach thru the converter under the bed. The fuse is in the block by the converter. I don't know about the light under the steps. The light is the one on the "battery disconnect" switch...it goes off when there is no shore/genset power engaged, and the batteries are disconnected.
Yahoo Message Number: 1701 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1701)
Attachments :
Deny,
As an owner of a Fourwinds 33K, I would like to give my two cents to the problem of the batteries not taking the charge from the converter.
There is a little known, Thermal Fuse that must be connected to allow the batteries to get the current from the Converter
Yours seems to be opened. The good news is that this Fuse has a micro-switch at the bottom of the vertically positioned fuse. Simply depressing a very small plastic square, will re-connect that circut so that the current can flow to the batteries.
Ok, that is the easy part.....the hard part is now finding that Thermal Fuse, and then getting into position to reset that switch.
It is buried under the bed. It is on the right side as you face the opening. Remove the one and only screw that holds the wood panel. Now you will see a mess of wires, but with a good source of light look for a brass connector strip. It is only 1" long. It is positioned horizontally. Now on the right side of the strip is a nut. There is a second nut directly below the first nut, and in between in the Thermal Fuse.
Get your finger under the black Thermal Fuse and push up. A "snap" will be heard if in fact the Fuse was opened. If it feels flat, and no sound is heard,...then the Thermal Fuse did not open, and the problem is further down stream.
I have attached a picture of the Thermal Fuse area. I circled it, but did not give it enough thickness to see it clearly.....Hope this helps.
Regards,
Joe Marinello
Yahoo Message Number: 1702 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1702)
not without being there with a meter.
Morrigan
Yahoo Message Number: 1704 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1704)
Denny,
I cleaned up the area of interest and labled leads. This picture now gives a bettery way of seeing the Thermal Fuse. As stated before, it is located on the right side of the picture. The battery voltage comes in from the lower right and goes through that Thermal Fuse.
I found the Steps also need that fuse to be working. When open, the Generator, or Shoreline will not bring the steps in.
Hope this helps,
Joe
2007 FourWinds 33K
Yahoo Message Number: 1705 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1705)
Thanks, Joe... you solved a "mystery" for me. On my coach, the buzz bar was mounted so the reset button pointed upward rather than on the bottom. I was checking circuits yesterday in that same exact area when suddenly the converter fan turned on and the batteries started charging. Without knowing it, I must have accidentally "reset" the switch... anyway, I copied your photo and placed it near the area for future reference.
On quick question, on my 33K, the cover for that area (converter, etc.) was attached to the metal crossbar with a couple screws, then they centered one screw in the board at the foot of the bed, and the front of the cover rested on the one screw. Kinda cheap, and I wondered if that was "standard" quality, or if the workman figured a way to save time. Is your cover attached the same way, or does both long edges rest on a wood or metal support?
Denny
Yahoo Message Number: 1706 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1706)
Joe,
Can you post the picture in the photo album. I have a 34h, so my
converter, inverter and other stuff are under the wardrobe not the bed.
I don't get sent emails, but, it may still be helpful to see what the
thermal fuse is.
David
Yahoo Message Number: 1707 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1707)
Denny,
Glad you got the batteries charging. I found that if mine are low and the converter is putting out 14.4V and I ask for the Jacks to retract, too much amperage is going through 50amp Fuse.
As far as the Cover over the electonics is concerned, I put a lip/edge at the bottom on the vertical fuse panel - wall and re-tapped the two screw holes to take "screw knobs". They are located on that left-to-right support bar at the other end of the cover.
Hope that helps,
Joe,
PS, will post the picture of the "Fuse" on the BB when I can figure that out.
Yahoo Message Number: 1709 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1709)
My "stuff" is under the wardrobe as well and it is a real chore to get at it and really see anything. When we had to try and get the convertor running we couldn't see the reset switch and that was all the problem was. Once again, no thought to the owner.
More and more I can see that an RV owner "had better be" a very handy person with tools and electrical and mechanical things or he/she will end up with a lot less hair. Mine is getting kind of thin now. :(
If I could go back to 1993, given what I know now, I doubt that I would buy an RV of any type. I'm more and more of the belief that owning an RV can shorten one's life expectancy. Up the road I can see life insurance applications having a question "do you own an RV?" and if you check "yes" they will say go no further, we don't want the risk. What Denny has been going though is not unusual and every manufacturer has turned out a lot of lemons. One RV can be a lemon and the next one off the line can be close to perfect. The risk of getting a lemon or a MH with dozens of problems is far too high.
Don
ps. When we had our Ambassador (which wasn't toooooo bad - only 3 months at the dealer in the first year) I was on a Monaco forum and I saved a post by an owner who took his MH back to the factory with over 200 problems. It always amazed me that someone could be happy in a situation like this. I think it is a case of not wanting to admit one made a mistake in purchasing the MH in the first place.
On 16-Sep-08, at 10:05 AM, dsteinman2001 wrote:
Yahoo Message Number: 1710 (http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/supercrvgroup/conversations/messages/1710)
Don wrote:
That's an understatement :-)
No doubt about it and I never really thought about that until I bought
this motorhome. In the past I took care of whatever happened to my
trailers and the only motorhome I had before this was in the 70's when I
had the Minnie Winne, which never had a problem. Since owning this one
I'm always looking for the next problem although the last two outings
have been flawless.
I just noticed the rubber ring around my back window has shrunk and
pulled away from one corner so I need to address that. I'm sure I'll be
told it was a maintenance issue and I should have kept it lubed and
soft....something I do religiously with 303 lube.
You could be absolutely right :-))))))
The king has no clothes. :-( Owning a motorhome is a very expensive
mistake. Makes me wonder about our sanity since I'm not ready to sell
mine yet.
Take care,
Greg