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Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Yahoo Message Number: 9285
Just bought a used 07 seneca and would like to put an edge w/juice or other programmer to help out the duramax when I haul my race trailer. I currently have an 05 duramax truck with the edge with juice and it worked great hauling my toyhauler. Wondering what everyone else is running before I buy.
Thanks, Ryan in Nashville

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9286
Ryan, I am in the same boat, we just purchased a used 2007 Seneca and I am adding the Edge Evolution CTS. I called Edge directly and asked them what the best solution was and they recommended the Evolution. What I wanted was a device to monitor all of the temperatures, especially EGT, so I am adding the probe as well using their EAS "expandable" starter/probe kit. I plan to tow a classic car in an enclosed trailer and need a tad bit more power.

Good Luck,
Pat

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9287
Popular programer is PPE. http://www.pacificp.com/
I have a DialbloSport Predator. Monitor temperatures with a ScanGaugeII. I have a separate EGT gauge. Regardless of who you get you gauge display from. You will need to drill and tap the passenger side manifold to install the probe. Others have got their ECM programed by EFI live. But they still need a display.
Good place for information on Duramax's is Diesel Place Medium Duty Truck forum.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9290
I just recently had the Edge CTS installed and have been very happy with it.

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9291
What are you towing? How much does it weigh? I have a 24' box trailer that I carry my off road car in - it weighs a lot less less than a road car - about 1/2. I can tell you that super lite car + gear etc. puts me at MAX GVWR (due to tongue weight) and MAX GCWR. My coach is a Dutchmen on a 19,500 chassis - So I have 6500 pounds left over for towing. My coach fully loaded, water etc. etc. put the coach on GVWR.

I am pretty sure the 07 Seneca was a 23,000 GVWR / 26,000 GCWR vehicle and weighs in at close to 23,000 loaded up ready to go which leaves you a whopping 3,000 - ish pounds left over for a trailer. [sugarless of the 10,000 hitch they put on the back end of it]

A few items here:

If I loaded my trailer with a road showcar I would be way over weight - by a mile = Unsafe

I did not buy a Seneca as they (mostly) can only tow about 3-4,000 pound - enough to flat-tow a jeep etc.

I do not require a tuner at all to carry my coach and the loaded trailer even up the steepest grades in SoCal. I would not even bother to install one as it runs like the devil now as it sits.



From: Ryan
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:14 PM
Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?


Just bought a used 07 seneca and would like to put an edge w/juice or other programmer to help out the duramax when I haul my race trailer. I currently have an 05 duramax truck with the edge with juice and it worked great hauling my toyhauler. Wondering what everyone else is running before I buy.
Thanks, Ryan in Nashville

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9292
I don't race cars just drag atv's. 24' race trailer with probably another 1500lbs of bikes and tools is all I will have in it. I drove the seneca home and it is a turd (imo) going up the hills in southern TN. I believe you are correct on the weights of the seneca and I typically don't carry full water on the road as I usually fill up at the tracks.
I'm putting bags on the rear and looking for the programmer now. Thanks!

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9293
Seneca GVWR was 22,000 for 2007 and I think that it was the same for all years that it was produced on the Kodiak.

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9294
Message
And has a 8,000# rated hitch

I am all for safety and am not arguing with that, but using good common sense is a little more realistic. I have no concerns on towing a 7,000# enclosed car trailer and car, with perfectly operating trailer brakes behind my Seneca with an exhaust brake.

I will travel between 55 and 60 MPH on level 1 or 2. For the most part I will be flat towing a CRV, which would be barely legal using the numbers below.

My Seneca did just fine pulling a 6% grade by itself, so I agree a tuner may not be needed or can be run at low levels. Monitoring engine performance is the main goal and might as well bump the HP a tad.

My 2 cents

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9295
Actually, our 2007 32SS came with a 10,000 receiver. It was manufactured 2nd quarter of 2007. Even though literature for 2008 also said 8,000 lbs I believe they were 10,000 lbs as well.

Don

ps. Of course, one could only tow GCWR less actual vehicle weight and for that to be 10,000 lbs ours would have to have been run with no "stuff" in the holds and with the driver and passengers inflated with helium. :)

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9296
Hi Pat -

The hitch rating is completely MEANINGLESS. I have seen plenty of 10,000# rated hitches on a coach with a 3,000# trailer capacity due to GCWR / GVWR rating that TRUM any hitch rating. Its a sales gimmick or a matter of what physically "fits" the chassis - not the rating of the vehicle - even more so in a two-stage vehicle.

So your coach likely weighs very, very close to 22,000# loaded up with all you crap, water, propane etc. Add to that 1,000#s of tongue weight you may be over GVWR + your 7,000# (conservative) trailer loaded you are at 29,000 GCWR = over the rating.

Keep in mind that should you have a "incident" insurance companies have been declining coverage due to overloading, over GVWR / GCWR etc. etc. One friend of mine just sold me his trailer as it made it total length just one-foot over maximum legal length - so he had another trailer built so he would be legal just for this reason.

This is why my next coach will be on a Freightliner Business Class / M2 chassis or heavier duty than that.

From: Pat-Syl Storer
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



And has a 8,000# rated hitch

I am all for safety and am not arguing with that, but using good common sense is a little more realistic. I have no concerns on towing a 7,000# enclosed car trailer and car, with perfectly operating trailer brakes behind my Seneca with an exhaust brake.

I will travel between 55 and 60 MPH on level 1 or 2. For the most part I will be flat towing a CRV, which would be barely legal using the numbers below.

My Seneca did just fine pulling a 6% grade by itself, so I agree a tuner may not be needed or can be run at low levels. Monitoring engine performance is the main goal and might as well bump the HP a tad.

My 2 cents

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9298
I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9299
I know I will probably get "flamed" for this, but all the research indicates the weak link is the "parking pawl" on the tranny. That is the biggest difference between the Allison 1000 and 2000 trannies, gear ratios are almost identical. Any chassis that normally has the 2000 is rated for 30,000 GCVW and comes with air brakes and the touch pad shifter in lieu of the column mounted shift lever and standard parking brake which is rated at 26,000 GCVW. The safety message on the 1000 says "overloading could result in damage and sudden movement of the vehicle".

From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:44 PM
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Cc: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca


Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9300
The issue not only engine / transmission / brakes etc. but things like wheelbase, type of frame etc. etc. that goes into the GVWR / GCWR ratings.

You explanation will not get very far in court if/when you have an 'incident' out there.

From: David Sparke
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 4:56 PM
Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



I know I will probably get "flamed" for this, but all the research indicates the weak link is the "parking pawl" on the tranny. That is the biggest difference between the Allison 1000 and 2000 trannies, gear ratios are almost identical. Any chassis that normally has the 2000 is rated for 30,000 GCVW and comes with air brakes and the touch pad shifter in lieu of the column mounted shift lever and standard parking brake which is rated at 26,000 GCVW. The safety message on the 1000 says "overloading could result in damage and sudden movement of the vehicle".

From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:44 PM
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Cc: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9301
Your gasser is way lighter - Engine and genset weighs less etc. etc. etc. Plus those new gas engines kick ass too!

From: Scott
To: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9302
the magic number (26,000) is more of a cdl reason.

the seneca's everything is underrated @ 2,6000.

i've moved to the dark side and now have a gcwr @ 80,000 lbs.

don

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9303
New gas engines? The 8.1 was a piece of history and GM killed production - which also put the boots to Workhorse's gas line of chassis since it relied on the 8.1. In fact, it now looks like Workhorse Chassis might well be gone for good.

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #18 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9304
That is exactly why we didn't buy a diesel. We were towing a Tahoe LTZ behind an Ambassador with an ISC and wanted to continue towing the 5700 lb Tahoe and we figured the Seneca could easily get overloaded and thus bought the Greyhawk on Kodiak.

Don

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9305
But so many states exempt RV's that I'm not sure that is why it was set at 26,000 - after all GM did put out units with higher GCWR's (Thor had one with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and it had the beefier Allison in it.) I doubt they would have incurred that cost if it was not necessary.

Don

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9308
I used a PPE and now a Quadzilla. I'm glad to hear your going to use a pyrometer. Tuning this engine was the best thing for performance.

Good Luck




Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9309
I cannot believe that any STATE exempts any RV from a GVWR / GCWR that has been submitted / approved by the manufacturer / NTSB etc. etc.

From: Don Leslie
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?


But so many states exempt RV's that I'm not sure that is why it was set at 26,000 - after all GM did put out units with higher GCWR's (Thor had one with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and it had the beefier Allison in it.) I doubt they would have incurred that cost if it was not necessary.

Don

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9311
They sure DO. What I'm talking about is precisely what you mentioned, that that is licensing. Check Florida for example. An 85 year old geezer can buy a Marathon Prevost and attached his Hummer 2 and drive that combo on a BASIC license. I used this example to piss off the Minister of Transport in Ontario because at 24,200 lbs we have to have a higher license (similar to a CDL) and yet she was letting in these geezers (I can use that term because I'm one of them) driving a combo that weighs in at over 50,000 lbs. I waved our charter of rights and freedoms at her and quoted a section that we are all to be treated equally. If I'm a danger driving such a rig (and I had 2 that were well over the 24000 lb limit) then surely that guy from Florida is as well.

Many states are just like Florida. If it is NOT a commercial vehicle no CDL is required. One photographer in Texas was fine. He travelled in his motorhome. He decided to have a fancy paint job done promoting his business. Ha, they caught him. Now he had a commercial vehicle because of the advertising on it and needed a CDL and also had to have all vehicle standards applied as well.

In California you have the license requirement bumped after 40 feet. When we got a 41 footer it had a CA video explaining the requirement. At the end it said if you don't live here and you are legal in your jurisdiction then you can come in and be legal here.

I'm heading for golf now but will dig up the licensing table by state and province and attach it later.

Don

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9312
That's exactly why I keep my class "A" current.... Nobody can say I shouldn't be driving it if something ever would happen..

From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Leslie
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:29 AM
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?



They sure DO. What I'm talking about is precisely what you mentioned, that that is licensing. Check Florida for example. An 85 year old geezer can buy a Marathon Prevost and attached his Hummer 2 and drive that combo on a BASIC license. I used this example to piss off the Minister of Transport in Ontario because at 24,200 lbs we have to have a higher license (similar to a CDL) and yet she was letting in these geezers (I can use that term because I'm one of them) driving a combo that weighs in at over 50,000 lbs. I waved our charter of rights and freedoms at her and quoted a section that we are all to be treated equally. If I'm a danger driving such a rig (and I had 2 that were well over the 24000 lb limit) then surely that guy from Florida is as well.

Many states are just like Florida. If it is NOT a commercial vehicle no CDL is required. One photographer in Texas was fine. He travelled in his motorhome. He decided to have a fancy paint job done promoting his business. Ha, they caught him. Now he had a commercial vehicle because of the advertising on it and needed a CDL and also had to have all vehicle standards applied as well.


In California you have the license requirement bumped after 40 feet. When we got a 41 footer it had a CA video explaining the requirement. At the end it said if you don't live here and you are legal in your jurisdiction then you can come in and be legal here.


I'm heading for golf now but will dig up the licensing table by state and province and attach it later.


Don



On 2012-06-19, at 12:38 AM, Victor Burns wrote:




I cannot believe that any STATE exempts any RV from a GVWR / GCWR that has been submitted / approved by the manufacturer / NTSB etc. etc.



center
From: Don Leslie grandriver125@...>
To:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?



But so many states exempt RV's that I'm not sure that is why it was set at 26,000 - after all GM did put out units with higher GCWR's (Thor had one with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and it had the beefier Allison in it.) I doubt they would have incurred that cost if it was not necessary.


Don



On 2012-06-18, at 8:33 PM, don_mcl wrote:



the magic number (26,000) is more of a cdl reason.

the seneca's everything is underrated @ 2,6000.

i've moved to the dark side and now have a gcwr @ 80,000 lbs.

don

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9313
After reading these posts, I realize how lucky I am. My 32B (1 slide) stays under 19,500 loaded and I can tow my armor plated rock crawler with tools and stay well under 26K GCWR. The biggest problem climbing grades is cornering to fast. My factory spare tire mounts between the frame rails and my wife can use all the extra storage. (Happy Wife is a Happy Life!)

Thanks guys, J
Dan

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #25 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9314
armour plated crawler LOL. I too looked at a 32b winnabago vista and almost bought it for the same reason but got a screaming deal on the 33ds that could not be passed up. Im in the bay area and rock crawl my 85 4runner fully built all over from rubicon to hollister hills :). thinking of mounting my spare above rear bumper to free up storage space


From: "dansocal@..."
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



After reading these posts, I realize how lucky I am. My 32B (1 slide) stays under 19,500 loaded and I can tow my armor plated rock crawler with tools and stay well under 26K GCWR. The biggest problem climbing grades is cornering to fast. My factory spare tire mounts between the frame rails and my wife can use all the extra storage. (Happy Wife is a Happy Life!)

Thanks guys, J
Dan

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #26 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9315
The RVDA of Ontario had long negotiations with the Minister's staff and I got a copy of the draft policy (because I'd shaken her up with my comments). I objected loudly and said that RVers should NOT be judged based on the GVWR and GCWR for their driver licenses but rather the ACTUAL weight of the motorhome and the combo with the toad. I pointed out that my MH had a GVWR of 19,500 lbs and my Tahoe was 7300 lbs. I said it would be VERY unfair to use 19,500 + 7,300 = 26,800 and say I was over the 24,350 total weight (vehicle and anything being towed) that required a Class D license WHEN IN FACT my total would be less than 24,000. Amazingly they listened and in Ontario you do not need a Class D (which means a truckers license for other than a tractor trailer - test includes backing up to a loading doc, hazardous material transport, etc. etc.) if your GCWR is less than 24,250 (11,000 KG). Our 32SS and Tahoe on the scale together weighed just a bit over 23,000. So I was pleased they listened (for once).

Today. there a hundreds of MH owners in Ontario who are not familiar with this requirement who are driving DPs with toads and are well over 30,000 lbs.

Vic, I was NOT referring to overloading but was commenting on your comment related to the 26,000 lb US DOT limit. The Ontario government was almost at the point of signing on to the 26,000 limit (but no exceptions for RVers like most US states and some provinces) and then balked. The reason - there are LOTS of horsey types who have gooseneck trailers that they tow when taking their horses to events and the trailers exceed 10,200 lbs (4600 KG). The 26,000 would let them tow without getting an upgraded license and they did not want that to happen.

As to overloading meaning actual weight exceeding ratings - I don't favour that. My son is in the vehicle manufacturing biz and he feels that the marketing competition that has been going on (ha ha my truck can tow more than both of yours) among the manufacturers has reduced the factor of safety for a lot of trucks.

Don



Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #27 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9319
Scotty,

My 32B is a Dutchman Kodiak.

I would like to get my Jeep on the Rubicon. We camped with our Toyota TRD at the lake near the start of the trail. It sure looks like a good run. I've been to Moab on some of the runs like Steel Bender. Looked at Lions Back, but the land owner closed it down to build houses. We mostly run southern California runs like San Diego Four Wheelers, TDS and Glamis Dunes. Mostly dry camp.

Dan

Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?

Reply #28 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9320
Sweet! Drop me a note sometime. We have a Tatum dual-sport car and I have a 4X4 Tracker, lifted, locked etc.

We live in N. County San Diego area and go to Ocotillo during the winter a lot.

Victor

Kodiak Diesel Dutchmen 34H - Bunkhouse

From: "dansocal@..."
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?



Scotty,

My 32B is a Dutchman Kodiak.

I would like to get my Jeep on the Rubicon. We camped with our Toyota TRD at the lake near the start of the trail. It sure looks like a good run. I've been to Moab on some of the runs like Steel Bender. Looked at Lions Back, but the land owner closed it down to build houses. We mostly run southern California runs like San Diego Four Wheelers, TDS and Glamis Dunes. Mostly dry camp.

Dan

Re: SoCal

Reply #29 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9322
Victor/Dan,

I too am in SoCal (Santee) and would love to meet up with you guys. I flat tow a '98 Wrangler. Maybe it is time for a West Coast Rally? ? ? ?

Rob

Fourwinds 34H, 8.1.



Re: SoCal

Reply #30 –
Yahoo Message Number: 9337
Rob/Victor,

We should meet at Superstition. There's lots of sand and big rocks. We could call it Kodiak Chassis Off Road Challenge. :)

Dan