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Looking to buy a "Super C"

Yahoo Message Number: 11283
Hello all,

Im looking to purchase a Kodiak based "Super C" sometime in the near future. Partly, this is for family vacations, and partly, to have a weekend retreat at the racetrack. Naturally, I have a few questions.

Thus far, Ive found the following Kodiak based RVs:
Gulfstream Endura
Jayco Seneca
Thor Four Winds
Thor Dutchmen

Ive read a good bit of negatives on the Gulf Stream, so that leaves the Jayco and Thor for now. Ive been doing a bit of research online, but Im not finding answers to a few of my questions, namely, weights. For a race weekend, my trailer is about 6200lbs loaded. Floorplan notwithstanding, it looks like I should have enough GVWR and GCWR to comfortably tow it with the Duramax Kodiak chassis. Has anyone ever weighed their MH with full fuel and water tanks? Because that number is the ultimate determination on what I can tow.

Second, what kind of fuel economy have you guys observed? Looking at some of the more recent posts, it seems 10-11 is about right, so I would expect 8-9 towing.

Lastly, are there any others in addition to ones listed above that were built on a Kodiak chassis?

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11284
I also use my 05 Gulfstream 6316 to tow my race car. My trailer is about 5500 loaded, and my 8.1 gasser does the job just fine. I did weigh my setup, fully loaded with fuel, water, propane and all of my gear. The 6316 is a single slide unit, so it is the lightest of the Super C's to my knowledge. It also has a huge pass through storage compartment in the rear. I carry 2 spares for the motorhome, one mounted and one unmounted, as well as 8 Corvette sized mounted race tires! With all that gear, 3 Labrador Retrievers and the Wife on board, I weighed in at 22,600 total. (RV and trailer combined) well under the 26K limit. The rear axle was close thought, with 12,500lbs on a 13,500 max.
That said, I never travel with full water, just enough for a shower or two on the road then top off at the nearest Flying J or campground to my destination. I bought my rig with 22K miles, and I'm now over 50K with no reliability issues whatsoever. Yes, the fuel economy sucks. 6-8 mpg, towing or not. But I love my setup, and feel to get a better rig for the task, you need to spend north of 120k. Hope this helps!

Almost forgot, weighed to near empty right after I bought it, and it was 15,500ish (need to look for my scale receipt)

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11286


Matt,

We have a 05 Endura diesel and pull a 24' Haulmark race trailer with a rear engine dragster, work bench, tools, golf cart, 50 gallons of alcohol, etc...

Never have weighed the whole rig but I would estimate the trailer at 6500lbs. The Endura tows it with no problem at all. I would not buy a gas version as the diesel (at least mine) has (along with more power) a diesel exhaust brake that makes slowing down much easier than just using the brakes. I would suggest the addition of a front sway bar and aftermarket shocks (Bilstein or Koni), they are well worth the price, mine was very scary to drive with just the stock suspension!

If you buy a used RV, any brand RV, expect to work on it or pay someone to work on it. Keeping the roof leak free takes monitoring the condition of the sealant on the roof at least every 3 months and resealing as needed. My Endura had a water leak problem (when I bought it) until I replaced the TV antenna that came on it with an Omni antenna and covered the hole where the old rotary type antenna was with a fiberglass electrical box that seals the roof but allows the coax from the Omni and coax and power for a domed automatic satellite antenna to pass to the interior. I used Dicor self leveling sealant on the roof.

Hope this helped.

Steven Kerns

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11290
If you do some searching on this forum you will find the Jayco problems far out number the Gulf Streams. I am a little biased because I own a GS. But the problems are about equal when you compare all the models. Besides GS had some very good floor plans.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11291

I also have a Endura like Ron and others. I don't think there are anymore or less problems then any other RV's. BTW look on RV TRADER FOR 2006 IN Allen Park, Mi. It's for sale. Not because I don't like it, I'am looking to get a 2013 Seneca.

huck & J J J

Re: Looking to buy a \

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11293
The Seneca do not have that much difference betwen GVWR and GCWR - Thus the reason I bought a Dutchmen on an 19500 / 26000 chassis.

Mine will be for sale in the near future.

Be well,

~
Victor - KI6IM
Kodiak Diesel Dutchmen 34H Bunkhouse

Re: Looking to buy a \

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11294
My mileages have been posted. I tow a 24' box trailer with offroad race car.

Be well,

~
Victor - KI6IM
Kodiak Diesel Dutchmen 34H Bunkhouse

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11296
We bought new a 2008 35H Dutchman diesel and pull a 2012 Ford 150 4door supercab. Loaded with fuel (in both), water and more extra stuff than one should have, we top out just over 19,900 on coach (over by a few hundred pounds) and a little 6,000 on the truck which puts us right at the 26,000 max.

Depending on the head wind, we get just under 10 mpg going up and down the west coast (lots of mountains). If we have a head wind, it drops to 8.5 and with no wind, closer to 11.

We are very pleased with the performance. Like so many in this group, we have had our share of issues with the coach but once worked out, we are also happy and plan on keeping it for a long while.

Good luck

Greg

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11297
We have a 2004 Gulfstream Endura with 30000 miles. It's been trouble free other than the leveler system which quit working due to the control unit which the tech said NEVER happens and " it's probably a fuse" . It was the control unit ($800.00) but it works now. Can't blame Gulfstream for that. The Kodiak chassis has been great though. We have the 8.1 gasser, get 8mpg which I can live with since gas is usually cheaper than diesel. We tow an enclosed trailer with a full dress Harley and always have plenty of power. True, I would like the exhaust brake but we are on an extended summer long trip cross country right now and are not having any problems. Don't know who's saying there are problems with the Gulfstream but we aren't experiencing them

--glen

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11298

When I was looking at buying an Endura I saw posts by a few people on RV internet sites who claimed (you know you can't put anything on the internet that isn't true! ;-) ) they had problems with their Enduras and that they were junk.

I took those with a grain of sand. The only problems I had with my used 05 Endura were caused by the previous owners lack of maintenance. I suspect many buy motorhomes and then let them set and don't perform maintenance (or check on them) only to find problems once the coach has set outside for a year or more without use.

I wise friend once told me "you will always have work and maintenance to do when you own a motorhome" My reply was "imagine driving you house down the road at 65MPH, of course you need to maintain it, it is just like your regular house but with added movement!"

Steven Kerns


Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11299
My opinion is that you need to take internet reviews for all items with a grain of salt. I think that most people would only take the time to write up a post or submit a complaint about a problem. I know that if I buy something and the item is as I expected it to be in quality I don't go out and write up reviews stating such.

When I return from a noneventful trip in my RV over the weekend and didn't run in to any issues I don't have anything to post about.

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11300
Ditto

We tend to voice problems and concerns more than accomplishments and success stories.
The best thing you can do is find something you like and spend some time in it, play with it and see if you really like it, sometimes you can compromise here and there because there is something else that you know it is important and works well. Unfortunately most of us don't do that we get it and then start learning more on the go, that is what happened to me and I had to make a decision and make a change later.
Look at your camping habits, trip duration, roads, life style, needs etc that will help you to make a decision.
Good luck
Mo

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11301
More of the same from me, if there are no problems, I don't have much to say.

I've got a 2007 Jayco Greyhawk 32SS gasser, 8.1L and 6-spd Allison xmsn. Loaded to the gills for a 4 month trip two years ago we weighed 18,500 pounds.

In my mind, it's been pretty trouble free for the 40,000 miles I've put on it. There have been problems, but nothing too terrible. The biggest was spending $2000 this spring to cure a leak in the front endcap. It could have been done cheaper had I done it myself, but I had a shop chase it down by using a SealTek machine and then repair. I also had them re-do all roof seals which added a fair amount to the cost. With some health issues going on, I didn't think I should try this one myself.

Other than that it's been little stuff I expect with an RV over time. Awning motor, loose screws, clogged a/c drain, exhaust hanger, rear window leak causing interior panel to swell ( it was a year old and covered under warranty. Fixed and replaced panel), slide topper torn in storm so I'll replace that ($150)

I think it's been a good unit and we just got back from another trip to Denver from NC.

I think you can throw a blanket over all of the brands and toss in some luck too. I have no regrets over mine and I've thought of trading for a class A a few times, but in the end I can't match it without spending a lot more money.

Take care,
Greg

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11303
Ron, I think you are missing a VERY key factor in your reply. Unfortunately, we took down the POLL we had running for a couple of years that asked members what model they owned.

I have, however, a PDF from 2009 and the count at that time was JAYCO 52, Gulf Stream 16 and Four Winds 15. If my memory is working, the Jayco advantage got much larger yet over the next year or two.

That ties in with the claim that JAYCO made at our rally in 2010 that they virtually owned the Kodiak Super C market. You may recall that in the last year of Kodiak availability Jayco sold over 900 Kodiak based units - way more than all of its competitors combined.

So, saying that more Jayco problems are reported is like saying more Chev owners report far more problems than are reported by Bugatti Veyron owners. Of course, in 8 years Bugatti has only built and sold 357 units compared with millions built by Chev.

Second, Jayco has a 2 year warranty and it backs it very well. GS is one year. Jayco is very responsive. There have certainly been strong complaints from some GS owners that have found that GS is not responsive to serious problems (I saved a couple from Dec 2007 just so I could remind myself to avoid GS). As to Four Winds customer support, one only need search our posts on Denny's problems to see the extent he had to go to get results - and see the items and design problems they could not fix.

Third, how many of the problems found by owners actually related to the Kodiak chassis and GM and how many were created by the MH manufacturers? Some of the Kodiak problems can be traced to the manufacturers since they often did not do a good job of building the box on it. In our case Jayco fixed the house problems with no questions. Our major problem was GM related and McCormick Chev (supplier of a majority of the chassis to the RV manufacturers) spent over $3k fixing the rear end. The only thing I regret is that I didn't put airbags on immediately (in fact, the Kodiak should have come with airbags from the factory for the RV units).

Don

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11304
Your right. But just with this thread there have been more GS responses than Jayco. All the manufactures have had problems. On this forum the problems have been well documented. So a good search will find all the problems each manufacture had with their Motor Homes.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #16 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11305
We love our Jayco GS 35. Yes we hand some initial issues but Jayco fixed all with some even out of warranty. We get 10 towing Tacoma with boat behind it. It is an 08 and if I were to buy a super C would be the new freight liner from Jayco. !

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #17 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11306
Ron, IMO it is not only an issue of whether or not a manufacturer has problems - but also how it handles the problems. Below are the two postings on RV.net that I saved. I'm sure I had another that is entertaining related to Monaco - which forum I was on (still a member) when we had an Ambassador. The owner listed the problems and what had been done to correct them (I think he lived at Monaco's service center for weeks and weeks) and yet, after just about everything going wrong that could go wrong - he stated he'd buy another one. No me thanks. (Oh, if I find it I'll post it since it is hard to imagine. Come to think of it, I think I posted it in 2007 or 2008 after I started this forum. Of course Monaco was purchased by Navistar and now is owned by Fleetwood.

Don

First one is filled with typos etc. Second is coherent. Note he bought a GS A Pusher when he dumped the Endura - because of the efforts of the dealer. It is that kind of lack of response from GS that would keep me away from them. We've never had that problem with Triple E, Winnie, Holiday Rambler or Jayco. I could reach them on the phone at virtually any time. Now, I can't say the same for Forest River. In Nov 2011, we bought a destination trailer to put on our lot next to our Park Model in Florida and at the end of the first season when we were going to move it to the storage area the tongue jack would not move. FR would not replace it unless we took it in to Lazydays. That is, took is in ON the trailer. Imagine having to get someone to tow it 50 miles to replace a $60 jack that they would not otherwise replace under warranty. Try to reach them to discuss it - another joke. Almost wanted to call Warren Buffet - who owns the joint. I went to Northern Tool and bought a much heftier one for about $60. In fairness though, no other problems beyond that of any consequence which is surprising given it was not an expensive unit. Now, we have it skirted (fenced as the skirting is not attached to the trailer for insurance reasons) and tied down so it sits on the lot year round.






Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #19 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11308
Matt,

i see your talking a duramax and not a gas

i've owned a 2007 seneca 33SS and a 2010 seneca 36FK.

neither one of them would pull your trailer legally.

with the 2010 seneca, that had a heavier suspension than the 2007 33SS i was at 23,000 lb. loaded with fuel, water and far too much stuff. i was maxed out dragging a aluminum trailer with 2 atv's @ (3000 lbs.)

do yourself a favour and look at least at an M2 with air and 22" wheels.

don

ps: let me look for the weight tickets.

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #20 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11310
Don,

Thats what I was afraid of. Ive seen some estimates of 16-18k loaded for a 34SS, which I thought was a little on the light side.

I could stand to lose a few pounds out of the trailer, as it were, but I dont think it would be enough to make a difference.

I had found this image:
https://public.sn2.livefilestore.com/y2pMaQzTcYPZTVBvbM927i4Rwb9f25sbJAv9waGAfMxYBKzIoMXnWN2TuI0fz_W8hQ0aY5GAsddj-CqYkO5o9fJekXLVhAYazi5BjrCfV6-w8g/34ss%20Weight%20List.jpg?psid=1

Hopefully that link works, but the numbers for a 34SS are
UVW: 18206
GVWR: 22000
GCWR: 26000

Jayco terms their UVW with a full tank of fuel apparently. Given that I would pack light for a race weekend with no water, I would guess that the loaded vehicle weight would be around 19K, plus a 6K trailer. Id be close, but it would be doable, I think.

Thank you all for the great answers and advice thus far.

Let me know if my math is a little off.

Re: Looking to buy a \

Reply #21 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11311
We own a 2005 GS 6316, duramax and tow a 24' enclosed trailer, MH is just over 18,500 loaded, the trailer right around 8,000 loaded with a 3100 lb race car. We bought the 6316 because it was lighter than most so we had more tow capacity left. It tows quite well, gets about 9 mpg. The build quality of the GS isn't that great, especially the wiring, but we like the floor plan. I would have bought a 4000 series Bigfoot if I could have found one, I think their build quality is better.
Jim Mantle

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #22 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11312
We have a 2007 32 ft bigfoot on a c5500 kodiak chasis.

We really like it, has all the bells and wistles. You might want to put it on your list to consider

Joe

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #23 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11314
I was under the impression that you couldn't get a 6316 with a Duramax. That's the perfect rig for towing! Are you the original owner? Was it a special order? I love my 8.1, but I'd trade it in a heartbeat to have the exhaust brake and the ability to tune the engine.

I'd be interested in knowing the unloaded weight of your rig. I know the diesel drivetrain should be heavier, but by how much?

Re: Looking to buy a "Super C"

Reply #24 –
Yahoo Message Number: 11315
Matt, when we bought our 32SS (gasser) we towed a 5700 lb Tahoe LTZ. I wanted a Duramax but it was very clear to me that unless I could get it in a 19,500 lb GVWR unit (which Jayco did not have) I could not tow the Tahoe. With a 26,000 GCWR, deducting the 5700 lbs meant not going over 20,300 lbs with a Seneca and that was not really possible unless my wife, son and I filled ourselves with helium. Thus, we ended up with the gasser that could tow the Tahoe and it did a fairly good job. But, no exhaust brake, no wonderful torque and lousy mileage.

Four Winds was the only manufacturer that really woke up to this issue and before the product line was killed by GM FW offered a 30,000 GCWR unit (as I recall main change was a beefier transmission) and that would have solved a lot of towing problems.

Don