Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

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Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

January 06, 2015, 11:39:23 am

I've read the comments on the shocks, Koni vs Bilstein, still haven't decided on which one.

Not comments on the air bags. Firestone or Air Lift? Also which compressor? Light or Heavy Duty?

Are the shocks and air bags owner installable or best left to professionals?

Thanks for the input.

Gary

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #1 – January 06, 2015, 12:50:42 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13917

Bilstein shocks were on back order last spring summer and fall. I hope they have solved that issue by now but check to make sure they are actually available. I choose the Koni's based upon the comments on this site along with the Firestone air bags. I did not do a compressor as the air bags are simple and easy to fill, a portable compressor will fill them.

Again, I did not think that my rig drove and rode bad prior to these upgrades. The upgrades made a significant difference and improved the ride dramatically. I had them installed. However, with minimal mechanical experience one could do them provided one had the appropriate jacks and air wrenches.

Doug Brothers
2005 6340 Gulf stream Endura

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #2 – January 06, 2015, 02:07:14 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13918

I installed both the shocks and air bags. Simple enough if you have any mechanical knowledge,
One other company makes air bags. Pacbrake.
I have original air compressor from GM on my MH. But if I was to buy one it would be a Viar.
Viair 35030 350C Air Compressor Kit

Also would use the their pressure switch and tanks.

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #3 – January 06, 2015, 03:25:43 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13919

Koni. Airbags only if needed and you have a Jayco they built on the lite duty springs.
The shocks are a bit od effort and dangerous. Airbags are easier. You can just use a portable compressor on the bags? Use seperate systems left and right though or you will cause roll issues OR install chalk valve like I did on the Embark.
~
Victor Burns
KI6IM
Embark TB390 Bunkhouse

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #4 – January 07, 2015, 12:18:33 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13922

Based on what I have read in this group, I ordered a set of Firestone air bags, due to arrive before the end of the week, 1-9-15. I plan to install them myself. I went with the Bilsteins and installed them myself without any problems. I have a 36' Seneca and the new shocks made a big difference. There is still some roll at driveway entrances and intersections which makes my wife a little uneasy and I hope the air bags will be item that makes her feel more secure when riding.

Russ Miles

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #5 – January 07, 2015, 01:44:54 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13924

Effort and Dangerous ?? I have Koni's on order, well BACK order from KONI.com about 5 - 8 weeks out they say..
But when they do arrive I was planning on putting them in myself...
any gotcha's ??
Thanks
Bruce

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #6 – January 07, 2015, 04:21:37 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13925

Front right top nut is hard to do. Need to hold shaft from top to keep shock from turning.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #7 – January 08, 2015, 03:18:39 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13926

I'mcuriousIhaveaSeneca 2008 36MS withKonisandIwaslookingatsomeadditionaloptionsandairbagswasonethem. However, im sure theairbagswilltakecareoftherollingfeelingaroundcornersanddrivewaysbutwillitmakeitastifferride?
Letme know,
Tim

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #8 – January 08, 2015, 03:24:23 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13927

I have not noticed a stiffer ride with the air bags. I will say they do not do much for the rolling in corners and driveways. I am planning on doing supersprings on mine

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #9 – January 08, 2015, 04:46:40 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13928

I put air bags on 08 senaca gs then supersprings. They had to take air bags off to do supersprings and said could not put airbags on after supersprings installed. Bolts not long enough. I like ride of supersprings and koni shocks. Just wanted to lift rear end some with air bags.

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #10 – January 08, 2015, 10:42:35 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13929

We have a 2007 Seneca 34 SS which we bought used in 2010 with low miles. Had a scary ride home from New Jersey to Albany, NY. The rig was all over the road and at times felt like it was out of control at 65 on the highway. That’s when I started investigating for fixes. I believe it was on this fine forum that I discovered Henderson’s Line Up Shop in Washington State. I spoke with John on the phone and he recommended two modifications we could make to help with the tail wag and uneasy feeling of not being in control of the steering at certain moments. http://www.hendersonslineup.com/ I remember reading somewhere that the only thing that attempts to control rear body sway is the spring shackles and rear sway bar…. and on the Seneca’s that’s not enough. The motor home just rocks around left to right. Solution was to buy and install SuperSteer Trac Bar for Kodiak 4500-5500 Chassis with 26,000 lb. SuperSteer Trac Bars positively locate the rear axle to improve handling and stability. Easy bolt-in installation with no drilling or welding requiredGVW http://www.supersteerparts.com/products/supersteer-trac-bar-kodiak-4500-5500-26k-gvw-heavy-duty-rear-end.html The rear axle is now tied to the truck frame with the track bar in place. The track bar totally solved the tail wag when tractor trailers were passing on the interstates and took away most of the rocking moving through driveways. John’s second recommendation was to install a Safe-T-Plus Steering Control - The Safe-T-Plus is a mechanically assisted, positive-centering steering control device engineered to maintain straight-ahead steering, even when encountering side winds, a blowout, pavement drops, road ruts and other hazards. http://www.supersteerparts.com/products/safe-t-plus-steering-control-ford-f53-c4500-c5500-kodiak.html The Safe-T-Plus totally tightened up the steering control on our Seneca. Two finger driving is now possible….no more white knuckles. In 2011 we invested in a set of Koni shocks…….another major improvement in ride and control was experienced. Now maybe you already have these modifications so forgive me for being so long winded. Just wanted to try and help as this great group has helped me so many times. Happy New Year, Bobby

TPMS

Reply #11 – January 09, 2015, 10:12:13 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13931

I'm thinking of putting a TPMS system on the motorhome and got an ad
from RV Wholesalers with a price for the 507RV TST system that seems
like a good deal. I haven't seen it any cheaper anywhere with the flow
thru sensors and includes 6 of them.

Anybody want to weigh in on their experience with these?

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog/product.php?productid=18372&cat=0&page=1

Thanks,
Greg

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #12 – January 09, 2015, 12:56:21 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13932

I like these two ideas. I guess you did the track bar first and then went with the steering control? they look easy enough to install. Did you do them yourself?

I'm assuming that lifting the rig with the levelers does not affect the track bar?

TJ Kennedy | Sr. Account Executive Sales | White-Rodgers
Emerson Climate Technologies | 8100 West Florissant Ave. | St. Louis, MO 63136
T 615-904-6145
C 972-977-4112

How are we doing |White-Rodgers Feedback

Follow us | Facebook| YouTube | Twitter | WRMobile

Re: TPMS

Reply #13 – January 09, 2015, 02:55:31 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13934

Purchased my TST system in 2007. The price you posted was good then.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: TPMS

Reply #14 – January 09, 2015, 06:05:42 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13935

I thought it sounded good. Do the sensors stick out a long ways fr=
om your front wheel covers? With the valve stem right at the edge of the co=
ver, I wonder if they'll stick way out

Re: TPMS

Reply #15 – January 09, 2015, 09:18:00 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13936

When I had new stems put in I had them install a length that just cleared the hole in aluminum wheel. TST sensor sticks out about 1 1/4", My sensor will fit in the hole but cannot get tool needed to install sensor out.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: TPMS

Reply #16 – January 09, 2015, 10:07:59 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13937

Do you have the flow thru sensors? My stems end right at the hole, so it sounds like I'll have the same situation.

Take care,
Greg

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #17 – January 10, 2015, 07:24:11 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13938

I do not have the flow thru sensors. I believe flow thru will be longer.
Best
Ron Hall

Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #18 – January 10, 2015, 12:00:10 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13942

Okay, I know this sounds stupid, but I remember there being confusion in the past during some shock discussion. So, here is what my rig looks like in the back. I assume this is an "eye to eye" setup.

I don't want to pull the trigger on the wrong ones.

Take care,
Greg

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #19 – January 10, 2015, 12:03:09 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13943

Yes, that is eye-to-eye style. Pin would have a stud sticking straight up parallel with the shock, and a nut on top.

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #20 – January 10, 2015, 02:01:34 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13945

Terry Pehrson - 38Chevy454 [SuperCrvgroup] wrote:

Quote

Yes, that is eye-to-eye style. Pin would have a stud sticking straight
up parallel with the shock, and a nut on top.

Good, that's what I thought, but I remembered someone getting confused
by whether they referred to the actual mount points or the ends of the
shocks.

I guess I'll get an order in while they're in stock.

Thanks,
Greg

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin [1 Attachment]

Reply #21 – January 10, 2015, 02:02:05 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13946

Yes, that is the eye to eye rear shocks. Fronts are pin to pin.

Doug

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #22 – January 11, 2015, 09:55:22 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13968

TJWe actually installed the trac bar and steering damper at the same time. I did install myself. The bracket that attaches the trac bar to the truck frame used factory holes in the frame for mounting, so no drilling required. I see they now have provided a special bracket that attaches to the frame without drilling……different than the one I used.

Here’s a link to install instructions. http://www.supersteerparts.com/SS500__Installation_Instructions_FINAL_Nov2011.pdf Probably the most difficult step was re-torqueing all of the attaching bolts and nuts only because the Seneca was on the ground with clearance at a minimum. I should also mention that our 2007 34SS already had the 26,000 lb rear spring upgrade before we purchased it. No problem using the levelers with trac bar.

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #23 – January 12, 2015, 09:14:05 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13970

Good luck ( with in stock )..
I ordered right at the end of Dec. and got an email that they were backordered and wouldn't be shipped for 5 - 8 weeks...

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #24 – January 12, 2015, 09:23:39 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13972

Quote

Good luck ( with in stock )..

I ordered right at the end of Dec. and got an email that they were
backordered and wouldn't be shipped for 5 - 8 weeks...

Well that's discouraging :-( I'll know today I guess when I place the
order. I had been online over the weekend and everything was listed as
"in stock" on the Koni site. They seem to be as cheap as anywhere else I
looked.

If there is another source, feel free to share!

Take care,
Greg

Re: Air Bags ,brand make a difference?

Reply #25 – January 12, 2015, 09:41:06 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13974

Ron said,

Quote

I do not have the flow thru sensors. I believe flow thru will be longer.

The closest answer I've gotten so far is "about 1 1/2" long. The deal I
got was for a system with flow thrus so I'll be trying them. I did talk
to a guy on IRV2 that said they didn't work with his wheel covers on the
front and TST just swapped him for the regular sensors.

I'll know in a week or so.

Greg

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #26 – January 12, 2015, 10:30:13 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13975

*sigh* - so on Jan. 5th I got the email from Koni saying it would be 5 - 8 weeks before they could ship the shocks.
About 20 mins. ago I get another one saying the shocks are shipping !

Which is awesome as we have a week trip to the Ca. coast in mid Feb planned and I would really like to see how much better the ride is without the OEM shocks.

Just a cautionary tale

Bruce

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #27 – January 12, 2015, 10:43:27 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13976

Well, long story but we tried to do more than just the shocks so.... The only change was the Koni's. So the good news is that we were able to observe the ride change without any other improvements (stabilizer, springs). We are kind of the worst case - 15K springs in the back that are on their last leg.... And...

Two things

THING 1: Ditto. I was told about back order, delays, .... But they shipped well before the expected date. Maybe a month early. I was still on my summer jaunt, and was counting on the delay. They almost were returned by UPS because of the delay in picking them up... phew!

THING 2) We just did support for a race down in Bandera County - Rough roads, road transitions, washboard, Really helps. Coming out of storage we have a nasty transition to the road, a bump that used to cause rock and roll. Not any more. Very smooth ride down at the band lands. So well worth it from this test. Best of all got a thumbs up on the upgrade from dear wife Sandy. And that counts for a lot.

Not much change on the freeway - but we were mostly back roads and did not have any 18 wheeler blow bys ;-) to compare against.

Very happy.

Kevin (Real) McCoy [@KF5FUZ]
("Roscoe Ventura" Jayco Seneca HD SS 34 Diesel 2006;
"Toad" Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 2007)

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #28 – January 12, 2015, 10:45:07 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13977

I purchased mine from LTB Autosports for $695.52 for four shocks. They were back ordered last year but they did show up at the door.

http://ltbautosports.com/

TJ Kennedy | Sr. Account Executive Sales | White-Rodgers
Emerson Climate Technologies | 8100 West Florissant Ave. | St. Louis, MO 63136
T 615-904-6145
C 972-977-4112

How are we doing |White-Rodgers Feedback

Follow us | Facebook| YouTube | Twitter | WRMobile

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #29 – January 12, 2015, 11:00:37 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13978

Hey , does anyone know how to get the signature line info ?
I looked at settings, either it isn't there or I missed it ( very possible )
Thanks

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #30 – January 12, 2015, 01:53:10 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13979

Quote

*sigh* - so on Jan. 5th I got the email from Koni saying it would be 5 -
8 weeks before they could ship the shocks.

About 20 mins. ago I get another one saying the shocks are shipping !

I just got off the phone with the folks at Ultra RV Products and the
parts girl confirmed they had them in stock before transferring me to
sales, then that girl went and physically got them and brought them to
her desk to make sure they were there and the right ones. I should have
a tracking number this afternoon :-) $680 shipped

I just didn't want them back-ordered for weeks, so I figured I'd call
and they certainly went out of their way to ensure they were available.
I have until April really, but am trying to get this sort of thing taken
care of well in advance....so something else can go wrong :-)

Now....I need to replace the slide topper on my bedroom slide.

Take care,
GReg

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #31 – January 12, 2015, 01:56:04 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13980

Quote

Well, long story but we tried to do more than just the shocks so....
The only change was the Koni's. So the good news is that we were able
to observe the ride change without any other improvements (stabilizer,
springs). We are kind of the worst case - 15K springs in the back that
are on their last leg....

That's what I want to hear!

Quote

roads, road transitions, washboard, Really helps. Coming out of storage
we have a nasty transition to the road, a bump that used to cause rock
and roll. _*Not any more.*_ Very smooth ride down at the band lands. So
well worth it from this test.

This is great news! As I said before, I'm not white knuckling down the
road or anything, but the rocking has increased. If I go up on the roof
without the jacks down, it's like being on a boat.

Quote

Best of all got a thumbs up on the
upgrade from dear wife Sandy. And that counts for a lot.

Well that's our goal going thru life anyway :-) Happy wife.....

Quote

Not much change on the freeway - but we were mostly back roads and did
not have any 18 wheeler blow bys ;-) to compare against.

I don't expect to see a lot on the highway either, but the slower rolly
areas I hope to improve.

Thanks for the update.

Greg

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #32 – January 12, 2015, 01:57:18 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13981

Quote

I purchased mine from LTB Autosports for $695.52 for four shocks. They
were back ordered last year but they did show up at the door.

I checked there too this morning, but they didn't have them.

Greg

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #33 – January 12, 2015, 03:10:40 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13982

Great work Greg !
Are you going to install them yourself ?
It seems easy enough... Ron gave a warning about the drivers side front top side nut being a pain..
I guess the shock will want to turn as you try and tighten it ?
I'm not sure why that would cause you grief though, since the fronts are pin to pin...
Any thing I'm missing ?
Thanks for all the info.
Bruce

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #34 – January 14, 2015, 03:34:14 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13983

Hello all, i am new to this site. We just bought a 2009 jayco seneca hd gs. We are driving it from fl to washington state. The jacks worked prior to leaving the dealership but now the rear and right lights on the panel just blink. When we push auto or manual neither work.. any ideas? We put it in neutral and set the parking brake. .. also, We can't get the hot water to work... the hot water tank fills but won't turn on we tried electric and gas.

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #35 – January 14, 2015, 03:57:32 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13984

Have you put it in Park and tried the jacks? Also check your 12 volt fuses for the water heater.

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #36 – January 14, 2015, 04:45:58 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13985

In our Embark the engine must be running while working the jacks.

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #37 – January 14, 2015, 05:51:09 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13986

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #38 – January 14, 2015, 06:11:27 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 13987

To add to the good advice you have already received.

On our unit the electric setting for the water heater requires AC current. There is a circuit breaker.

If you heat the water with propane, the line may need to clear of air. it may take a second lighting attempt to get it to go. There should be an error light on your console if it fails to ignite.

Kevin

Kevin (Real) McCoy [@KF5FUZ]
("Roscoe Ventura" Jayco Seneca HD SS 34 Diesel 2006;
"Toad" Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 2007)

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #39 – January 15, 2015, 07:22:49 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13988

Have you tried checking the level of the fluid in the reservoir?

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #40 – January 15, 2015, 10:19:35 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13989

We have a 2009 Seneca HD. To work the jacks, the engine must be running, the shifter in park, and the emergency brake must be on. To use the manual setting, you have to hold down the button for about five seconds before the manual light will come on. I don't like using the auto setting as it tends to not be able to level the unit well.

As for the water heater, to use it on electric, the generator must be running or you must be plugged into shore power. To light with gas, many times it takes several tries before it will light. As has been mentioned, check the fuses and the circuit breakers. Mine were located down low next to the oven. You should be able to hear the ignitor trying to light the gas if it is working properly.

Re: Koni - eye to eye, pin to pin

Reply #41 – January 15, 2015, 11:02:14 am

Yahoo Message Number: 13991

Have you checked that the valve on the propane tank is open and that there is propane in the tank?

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