towing weight restrictions for super c

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towing weight restrictions for super c

January 24, 2015, 04:33:02 pm

I am looking to buy a 2007 gulfsteam endura model 6362. I looked up the brochure for that unit and was surprised and disappointed to find that towing capacity is 4000 pounds even tho they put on a 10000 lb. hitch. I have been unable to locate the same type of specs for the Jayco Seneca model. Does anyone know where to find this info on the Jayco.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #1 – January 24, 2015, 09:06:20 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14030

The Endura and Seneca in 2006 to 2010 used the same 22,000 chassis. The statement in the brochure states if the coach weighs 22,000 then you will only have 4k lbs towing to get to 26k GCWR. I do not know what weight you plan on towing. But the 26k chassis has to do with max weight for licensing. In some states anything above 26k requires a CDL drivers license.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #2 – January 24, 2015, 10:54:54 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14032

Thanks, but the brochure for the 2007 endura states that 4000 is all that can be towed. and when doing the math between gvwr and gcwr it comes to 4000 also. I know those motors and transmissions could pull more, but to do so is not recommended. The lemon I just got rid of was rated to tow 10000, which agreed with the difference between the gvwr and gcwr. So I know there are super Cs rated to tow more, I just have to find them. I have to have something that can tow 8000 lbs. Thanks for your help.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #3 – January 25, 2015, 12:44:57 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14033

The point Ron made is correct - the maximum you can tow without exceeding the GCWR is 4000 lbs WHEN the motorhome itself with "stuff and people" weighs in at 22,000 lbs (the GVWR).

When we purchased our Jayco Greyhawk on Kodiak in 2007 we got the 8.1L Chev Vortec gas engine and the chassis rated at 19,500 lbs GVWR and 26,000 lb GCWR. It also had a 10,000 lb rated receiver. Thus, if we were loaded to the GVWR of 19,500 lbs, we'd still be able to tow 6,500 lbs AND we wanted that capacity since we were, at that time, towing a 2007 Tahoe LTZ that weighed about 5800 lbs. I was concerned that if I bought the diesel and DW filled it up to the GVWR with all of her "stuff", we'd be over the GCWR towing the Tahoe.

If you find that your vehicle fully loaded weighs, for example, 20,000 lbs, then you CAN tow 6,000 lbs before you exceed the GCWR.

Prior to our Kodiak we had a 41 ft DP that could easily tow 10,000 lbs.

BTW, Thor offered a 30,000 lb GCWR unit starting not too long before production of the Kodiak ceased. The primary upgrade was the transmission from the Allison 1000 to the Allison 2500 (if memory is working). I don't think they made to many on that chassis before production ceased. This increased GCWR sure would be helpful to Kodiak MH owners.

What really surprised me was the fact that the new Seneca has a "GCWR less GVWR" of only 5,000 lbs. IMO a major boo boo by Jayco.

Don

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #4 – January 25, 2015, 10:21:11 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14036

I am sorry but are you not saying just what I did, it is only rated to tow 4000 lbs. I would be well over that pulling my horse trailer with horses. I don't see any way to get around this. I am surprised to find that a gas class c has more towing cap, but that is what the manufacturer says.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #5 – January 25, 2015, 10:35:11 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14037

It is rated for a combined weight and the actual weight of the MH loaded going down the road determines how much you can tow subject to the limit of the receiver attached.

In some cases the carrying capacity of the MH is very high and most owners are unlikely to use that amout - and thus the "extra" can be used for towing. For example, we usually were loaded such that we didn't even reach 18,000 lbs with our GVWR of 19, 500. That 1500 could be added to the weight to whatever we were towing since we would then not exceed the GCWR (26,000), the GVWR (19.500 and the hitch rating (10,000) - but would be towing 8000 lbs not 6500.

Some units are heavy enough unloaded that by the time the owner loads his/her "stuff" and people there is little left (if any - or they may be over the GVWR) and they will be capped by the GCWR minus GVWR.

You are absolutely right with respect to your horse trailer problem and I've seen many issues like that and the owners simply ignore them. My son tows a race trailer and he is very careful not to overload it. We go out to the track 4 to 6 times a year and what I see with respect to overloaded trailers surprises me (given many of the racers in Michigan are engineers). If one were involved in a serious accident and the GCWR had been exceeded by a substantial amount I suspect the liability issues could be serious if this became an issue in court as to the cause of the accident. Insurance companies might also not be very happy if a vehicle was operated in such a manner. Could they reject coverage? I don't know.

I can't recall the exact numbers but the FMCA in doing MH weights at rallies found a substantial portion of the MH's they checked exceeded their GVWR's.

Don

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #6 – January 25, 2015, 10:43:42 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14038

The gas class C has a higher rating since the motor weighs less than a diesel engine, so that increase capacity

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

"Alice Smith alicefsmith1943@... [SuperCrvgroup]" wrote:

I am sorry but are you not saying just what I did, it is only rated to tow 4000 lbs. I would be well over that pulling my horse trailer with horses. I don't see any way to get around this. I am surprised to find that a gas class c has more towing cap, but that is what the manufacturer says.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #7 – January 25, 2015, 10:49:01 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14039

I think with a estimated trailer weight of 8,000 lbs you need to be looking at larger MH to tow with. Probably something with a tag axle like Haulmark or Renegade. Maybe a Class A with a tag axle.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #8 – January 25, 2015, 11:16:55 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14040

I wish there was a way, but for the way I travel I don't think so. As I am dry camping, and there is no way to fill every thing up after I arrive, I leave with water full, propane full and cargo to the max. plus I carry Hay, and more water for horses. I am so disappointed I really wanted that gulfstream endura. In my price range it looks like I will have to come up with another means to travel.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #9 – January 25, 2015, 11:47:01 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14041

There are other Super C's out there. I have the Thor Four Winds 33SW, the GVWR is 19,500 and the GCWR is 35,000. I have pulled my 8,000 pound trailer for 3,500 miles and I'm impressed, pulls like a freight train and handles like an SUV. The limitation is the receiver which is rated for 10,000 lbs and is pretty high so you need a hitch with a large drop. I love the motorhome with the exception of the refrigerator which is a residential fridge (110 only) which does not work for dry camping and I only dry camp. I've decided to bite the bullet and swap the refrigerator to a propane refrigerator.

Chuck
2014 Thor Four Winds 33SW

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #10 – January 25, 2015, 12:09:28 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14042

Nice one Chuck. I was thinking about yours since it does have such good towing capacity (twice that of the new Jayco Seneca in fact) and was going to suggest it. I've been contemplating one myself but given that they decided to put our Canadian Dollar in a submarine and send it down the price has gone up a pile so I'm not going to think about it for a while.

We would rarely dry camp. How is your residential fridge on the road. As I recall your alternator puts out enough power to run it while traveling. Is that the case?

Don

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #11 – January 25, 2015, 12:11:19 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14043

I know some here disagree, but as far as the SENECA was concerned, I confirmed with Allison a medium duty Chevrolet dealer and one of the SENECA design engineers that the parking pawl in the 1000 trany was the weight restriction. JAYCO also went with 26,000 restriction as a CYA and it also had a lot to with licensing requirements in many states.

The 1000 and 2300 are identical tranys except the parking pawl. The 2300 is rated at 30,000 and the 1000 at 26,000. I was running with at GCVW at 29, 000 (towing a 1500 Silverado 4wd with a golf cart in the bed) and it handled it fine. To quote the Allison shop foreman "you'll be fine just be sure to use the parking brake". The owners manual for the also says overloading can result in sudden vehicle movement..

The parking pawl will snap is the reason. Just my 3cents.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #12 – January 25, 2015, 12:31:14 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14044

Like Dave others have stated. We have all towed over the rated towing capacity of our MH's. But if you want to be within the rated specs of MH you will have to consider something heavy duty than a Kodiak based Super C. Have you considered a HD pickup and a horse trailer with living quarters.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: Thor 33SW Fridge

Reply #13 – January 25, 2015, 06:09:10 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14046

Thor put a big inverter in the coach, so driving down the road the refrigerator stays nice and cool no issues there, the batteries will run the fridge for about four hours before I have to plug in or start the generator. They also put a big converter (don't shoot me if I got the name wrong), but the generator charges the batteries pretty fast. I just don't like having to run the generator that much while dry camping.

Chuck

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #14 – January 25, 2015, 07:05:36 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14047

GREAT DAY IN TEXAS......

GREAT INFO~! I have been watching and enjoying the many ideas and GREAT comments regarding Super C Motorhomes and finally got the time to replay.

Chuck ~ You are s-o right. The INVERTER on the Thor Super C is good and handles the coach well.I actually allow my kids to watch TV while under way, although sound is still an issue. "Converters and inverters are electrical devices that convert current. Converters convert the voltage of an electric device, usually (AC) to (DC). On the other hand, inverters convert direct current (DC) to (AC)."I also agree with you on the batteries and how long I can go before the gen kicks in while dry camping.I find that I get 3-5 hours and cannot make it fully through the night without the gen auto-starting.I have considered changing and adding more batteries but am cautious about where and extra weight but will address that soon.I did add several solar panels and have found that most days they perform well and keep between .1-and 3 amps of 120V going during good sunlight.I have up to 30 amps (at 12V) on great days.I like the solar option but also feel that solar really needs future advances to really enhance their usage.I have about $2K invested in the solar and had the panels EXPERTLY installed to avoid roof leaks.I often to things like this myself, but..... since the unit was brand new, let's try to keep it like that. NOW..... the gen does seem to run more than I like, even when solar is throwing off power.I have even consider replacing the fridge with a "higher end" model that has greater efficiency. Currently the fridge is using est 6-7 amps and a GOOD fridge can get down to as little as 3 amps, worth it? Not sure since the cost to replace the fridge is est $1,100 and the fun part is removing the unit thought the window since it will NOT go out the door, OH FUN!The issue is not always about money but time, effort and to what end?As far as towing, heck yes, since I towed my wife's Nissan Altima and hardly knew it was there. You do need a substantial step down hitch to lower the tongue for any trailer you pull.I also suggest watch the hitch weights, ie, often you will find a hitch slide rated for 5K lbs but people towing 7-8K, b-a-d idea.:)I looked on ebay and found some really nice, 12K rated slides and will hit my local trailer for a ball suitable rated for such.I prefer 12K rated slide with a 10-12K rated ball for the larger 2 5/16 size and something slightly less for the 2 inch. In any case, higher weights for slides and trailer balls is acceptable but NOT less, VERY IMPORTANT!Especially in the event of an accident, they will look at EVERY-THING.Be safe, arrive alive, stay out of accidents, tow safely.

Now.... Chuck.... what kind of fuel economy did you get when towing?What was the weight of the towed vehicle, speed and distance?I ask this, since I towed a bumper pull with my F450, last August, to Colorado and back, and got 8-9 MPG, running 70+ MPH.I almost think that I would have been better to drive the MH and tow a car. There was 4 of us and I really liked the trailer layout over the MH.Choices, choices - decisions, decisions......

Also.... Chuck... Please tell me more about the fridge conversion, and send photos please.I would really like to know more as I had considered that also. Decisions......

Ron..... Ok, as far as the towing limits.... someone correct me, if necessary, but towing limits are just that....Tongue weight should factor into GVW but not FULL towed weight. Texas does NOT require a CDL with travel trailers registered over 10K, only work type, low boy, etc.... Once again, not RV's.

OVER ALL - I really like the Thor Super C with the FORD F550 and the 6.7L Diesel and would purchase this vehicle again. It is priced right and does most everything I desire. It tows, it runs GREAT, has Diesel generator with auto-start and even rides good.I get acceptable fuel economy (9.5-10) and only have 7K miles on this unit.I do plan to use it more this year.I would make this purchase again. Jerry in Texas... 40 degrees last night and 60 degrees today. Margarita.... 30 degrees +/-

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #15 – January 25, 2015, 07:10:31 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14049

GREAT INFO~! I have been watching and enjoying the many ideas and GREAT comments regarding Super C Motorhomes and finally got the time to replay.

Chuck ~ You are s-o right. The INVERTER on the Thor Super C is good and handles the coach well.I actually allow my kids to watch TV while under way, although sound is still an issue. "Converters and inverters are electrical devices that convert current. Converters convert the voltage of an electric device, usually (AC) to (DC). On the other hand, inverters convert direct current (DC) to (AC)."I also agree with you on the batteries and how long I can go before the gen kicks in while dry camping.I find that I get 3-5 hours and cannot make it fully through the night without the gen auto-starting.I have considered changing and adding more batteries but am cautious about where and extra weight but will address that soon.I did add several solar panels and have found that most days they perform well and keep between .1-and 3 amps of 120V going during good sunlight.I have up to 30 amps (at 12V) on great days.I like the solar option but also feel that solar really needs future advances to really enhance their usage.I have about $2K invested in the solar and had the panels EXPERTLY installed to avoid roof leaks.I often to things like this myself, but..... since the unit was brand new, let's try to keep it like that. NOW..... the gen does seem to run more than I like, even when solar is throwing off power.I have even consider replacing the fridge with a "higher end" model that has greater efficiency. Currently the fridge is using est 6-7 amps and a GOOD fridge can get down to as little as 3 amps, worth it? Not sure since the cost to replace the fridge is est $1,100 and the fun part is removing the unit thought the window since it will NOT go out the door, OH FUN!The issue is not always about money but time, effort and to what end?As far as towing, heck yes, since I towed my wife's Nissan Altima and hardly knew it was there. You do need a substantial step down hitch to lower the tongue for any trailer you pull.I also suggest watch the hitch weights, ie, often you will find a hitch slide rated for 5K lbs but people towing 7-8K, b-a-d idea.:)I looked on ebay and found some really nice, 12K rated slides and will hit my local trailer for a ball suitable rated for such.I prefer 12K rated slide with a 10-12K rated ball for the larger 2 5/16 size and something slightly less for the 2 inch. In any case, higher weights for slides and trailer balls is acceptable but NOT less, VERY IMPORTANT!Especially in the event of an accident, they will look at EVERY-THING.Be safe, arrive alive, stay out of accidents, tow safely.

Now.... Chuck.... what kind of fuel economy did you get when towing?What was the weight of the towed vehicle, speed and distance?I ask this, since I towed a bumper pull with my F450, last August, to Colorado and back, and got 8-9 MPG, running 70+ MPH.I almost think that I would have been better to drive the MH and tow a car. There was 4 of us and I really liked the trailer layout over the MH.Choices, choices - decisions, decisions......

Also.... Chuck... Please tell me more about the fridge conversion, and send photos please.I would really like to know more as I had considered that also. Decisions......

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #16 – January 26, 2015, 01:58:51 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14051

Well Jerry I am glad you are enjoying your thor super c, I loved mine. I had thor put me in 4 batteries, 6 volt. They also put in a larger converter and inverter. I also traded out the residential fridge for a propane/electric one. with that done my Auto Gen would go 24 to 48 hours with out kicking on. All that and it had a tow rating of 10,000 lbs. It pulled and stopped with ease, however it was a lemon and they had to repurchase it from me. That full wall slide was the straw that broke the camels back. I am now researching fith wheel toy haulers, as they make a horse stall conversion that fits in the garage. I have one selected, but first I need to talk to the engineers.

Re: Thor 33SW Fridge

Reply #17 – January 26, 2015, 02:01:10 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14052

thor put me in 4 6 volt batteries, propane/electric fridge, larger converter and larger inverter, it would go 24 to 48 hours without kicking on the auto gen.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #18 – January 26, 2015, 07:25:14 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14053

In my post I never did get into tongue weight. Standard tongue weight is usually 10% of trailer weight. Anything less may cause fishtailing of trailer. With movable loads like cars and horses. Tongue weight can go over 20% depending on how load is positioned. Most 10K hitches have a tongue weight limit of 1K. Would not take much to overload hitch with a 8 to 10K trailer.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #19 – January 26, 2015, 08:20:00 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14054

That is what has kept me from giving final consideration to the Thor Super C's. I've seen too many Thor quality issues here and in all other forums and I don't relish spending a lifetime at a dealer. I've done enough of that already. Pity they couldn't do the box on the F550 to match the quality of the F550.

Don

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #20 – January 26, 2015, 09:25:35 am

Yahoo Message Number: 14055

Do you have any photos of the fridge stuff? I don't like the way the fridge sucks down power but unless I go propane, am limited to the one that came with the unit or a newer high end fridge. Might just change out the fridge. Jerry in Texas

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #21 – January 26, 2015, 03:40:04 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14058

Embark, 20,000 #
~
Victor Burns
KI6IM
Embark TB390 Bunkhouse

From:"Alice Smith alicefsmith1943@... [SuperCrvgroup]"
Date:Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 8:27 PM
Subject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Thanks, but the brochure for the 2007 endura states that 4000 is all that can be towed. and when doing the math between gvwr and gcwr it comes to 4000 also. I know those motors and transmissions could pull more, but to do so is not recommended. The lemon I just got rid of was rated to tow 10000, which agreed with the difference between the gvwr and gcwr. So I know there are super Cs rated to tow more, I just have to find them. I have to have something that can tow 8000 lbs. Thanks for your help.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #22 – January 26, 2015, 03:42:07 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14059

And added as tongue weight too.
~
Victor Burns
KI6IM
Embark TB390 Bunkhouse

From:"Don Leslie grandriver125@... [SuperCrvgroup]"
Date:Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 7:35 AM
Subject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] towing weight restrictions for super c

It is rated for a combined weight and the actual weight of the MH loaded going down the road determines how much you can tow subject to the limit of the receiver attached.

In some cases the carrying capacity of the MH is very high and most owners are unlikely to use that amout - and thus the "extra" can be used for towing. For example, we usually were loaded such that we didn't even reach 18,000 lbs with our GVWR of 19, 500. That 1500 could be added to the weight to whatever we were towing since we would then not exceed the GCWR (26,000), the GVWR (19.500 and the hitch rating (10,000) - but would be towing 8000 lbs not 6500.

Some units are heavy enough unloaded that by the time the owner loads his/her "stuff" and people there is little left (if any - or they may be over the GVWR) and they will be capped by the GCWR minus GVWR.

You are absolutely right with respect to your horse trailer problem and I've seen many issues like that and the owners simply ignore them. My son tows a race trailer and he is very careful not to overload it. We go out to the track 4 to 6 times a year and what I see with respect to overloaded trailers surprises me (given many of the racers in Michigan are engineers). If one were involved in a serious accident and the GCWR had been exceeded by a substantial amount I suspect the liability issues could be serious if this became an issue in court as to the cause of the accident. Insurance companies might also not be very happy if a vehicle was operated in such a manner. Could they reject coverage? I don't know.

I can't recall the exact numbers but the FMCA in doing MH weights at rallies found a substantial portion of the MH's they checked exceeded their GVWR's.

Don

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #23 – January 26, 2015, 03:42:52 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14060

As does the matching diesel genset
~
Victor Burns
KI6IM
Embark TB390 Bunkhouse

From:"Ronnie Hartzog georonnie@... [SuperCrvgroup]"
Date:Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 7:43 AM
Subject:Re: [SuperCrvgroup] towing weight restrictions for super c

The gas class C has a higher rating since the motor weighs less than a diesel engine, so that increase capacity

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

"Alice Smith alicefsmith1943@... [SuperCrvgroup]" wrote:

I am sorry but are you not saying just what I did, it is only rated to tow 4000 lbs. I would be well over that pulling my horse trailer with horses. I don't see any way to get around this. I am surprised to find that a gas class c has more towing cap, but that is what the manufacturer says.

Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

Reply #24 – January 26, 2015, 03:43:33 pm

Yahoo Message Number: 14061

You will have 1000 to 1600 #s on tongue weight tio.
~
Victor Burns
KI6IM
Embark TB390 Bunkhouse

From:"ronjhall@... [SuperCrvgroup]"
Date:Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 7:49 AM
Subject:[SuperCrvgroup] Re: towing weight restrictions for super c

I think with a estimated trailer weight of 8,000 lbs you need to be looking at larger MH to tow with. Probably something with a tag axle like Haulmark or Renegade. Maybe a Class A with a tag axle.
Best
Ron Hall

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