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Inverter Question

Yahoo Message Number: 16791
I have a 2008 Jayco Seneca 36FS. When we got it, it had no inverter and
I always assumed it had been removed as there are holes in the area
under the bed where all the electrical lives, a xantrex switch in the
command console, a couple of wires badly capped off including the phone
cable that used to connect to a Xantrex inverter. There is now a
charger, but I'm assuing it was added later. I was going to install an
inverter so that we had live 110v off the batteries for doing small
things when we didn't want to run the generator. But in looking at the
wiring under the bed, I don't see how it all works.

I see the transfer switch that transfers from shore power to generator
power (on the left in the picture). But I don't see where the 120v from
the inverter would go to supply the 12v distribution panel. One of the
two wires left dangling is 120V ground, the other, which is good size,
doesn't show continuity with anything - 120 or 12v.

Plus, for an inverter to work, doesn't there need to be a subpanel that
it would supply?

There are a couple of 120v outlets under the bed that look like they
were jury-rigged in. No idea what they do, but they make me suspicious.

Peter

Re: Inverter Question [1 Attachment]

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16792
The inverter was normally attached to the bottom of the floor in a storage compartment. On our 08 35GS it was in the 2nd compartment back, driver's side. That put it directly across from the batteries which gave it the shortest run for the 12v wires. The inverters had a built in transfer switch that was independent of the geny transfer switch and they were wired into a sub-panel built into the main breaker panel.

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16794
That's not where it was on ours. The bed is essentially on top of the battery compartment in my unit.
Peter

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16795

Here is the spec for the inverter JAYCO used, it did not provide any 12v output.
http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-inverters/prosine.aspx

Quote
On July 24, 2018, at 15:28, "Peter Young j.peter.young@... [SuperCrvgroup]"  wrote:


That's not where it was on ours. The bed is essentially on top of the battery compartment in my unit.
Peter

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16796
David,

Do you know how the 120v output from the prosine was wired into the 120v distribution panel?
Peter

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16797

It has or (should have) another split buss seperate from the 2 50 amp breakers.
The Inverter fed a main (20 amp if I remember correctly) breaker on the right side of the panel. There were two breakers that fed the TV's and Microwave on that buss as well.
There should have also been a breaker off one of the 50 amp legs that fed the inverter since it has a built in transfer switch.

Quote
On July 24, 2018, at 16:28, "Peter Young j.peter.young@... [SuperCrvgroup]"  wrote:


David,

Do you know how the 120v output from the prosine was wired into the 120v distribution panel?
Peter

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16798
For what its worth..I have a 2006 Endura 6340, didnt come with an inverter at all. Does have a converter and automatic transfer switch for the generator and shore power. As a general rule, an inverter should be wired directly to the battery as close as possible using the heaviest guage you can handle. I have 4 - 6 volt batteries for 440 amp hours of capacity connected to a cheap harbor frieght 2000 watt mod-sine wave inverter. My run is about 2-2.5 feet from the batteries to the inverter. From there I made a heavy guage "extension cord" to run from the inverter output to the back of my 120v panel and used a 20amp breaker. This allows me to power my entire coach off the inverter. 1) I cant run the AC off the inverter, but I can run the rest of the coach. 2) I make sure to turn the breaker to the converter off to avoid the negative regeneration cycle 3) when I need to hook up to shore power or turn the generator on (pretty much only to run the AC) i have to make sure the breaker to the inverter is off, otherwise it will back feed the inverter and fry it!

I know I could have tried to figure out how to run my AC power out of the inverter into the transfer switch but honestly it was a longer run and too much like work since its hidden away in the back on my coach not near the AC panel.

I have 200 watts of solar on the roof and that keeps the batteries topped off most of the time, I am planning on adding another panel or 2 in the future to account for cloudy days better. But honestly we can run the coach indefinitely on that much power,(except for the AC). And we have young kids, so there is at least one TV and dvd player running most of the time.

I think with the wire, inverter the fuses, etc. the inverter install cost less than 200 bucks and about 2 hours. So maybe not the 100% professional job, but definitely better than most I have seen and a hell of a lot cheaper!

Good Luck,

Chris

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16799
Hello guys,
While I am not a Jayco man, I have had some experience with the Xantrex inverter folks.
It is my understanding that the technical services have been contracted out to Snider Elect at 800-670-0707. Have you contacted them to see if they can put you in contact with a local contractor?
I previously have contacted them and got some pretty good phone assistance but it was limited.
Don't know where you are located but I was referred to a great service center just north of Nashville called Inverter Sales and Service at Whitehouse, TN 615-285-0611. Frequently, the phone is busy and you must call back.
They seem to always have time to answer your questions and help you along the way. I have never had a problem or issue that they could not remedy over the phone. Not only do they repair the units but install them with all the required wiring. If I had questions like you are asking, I would certainly call them. If you are near by, they are just 1 block off the interstate.
The problems I have discovered is that I am required to ask them the correct questions and sometimes I just don't know what to ask but they have always been of great assistance.
I noticed you only posted 1 photo, you might want to take many more and be prepared to send them anything they ask for. Also, be prepared to tell them where each and every wire is located, what it the wire to, or if it is just hanging.
I have no doubt they will be of assistance and will surprise with their knowledge.
Best of Luck,
Don

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16800
Maybe I need to go back and read the original posts because I don't remember if you said the inverter and converter both were missing.
It is my understanding that when some of the Xantrex inverters are added, the converter is removed. It seems like when the inverter receives shore power or generator input, it cannot be an inverter and charger, therefore, stops being an inverter and begins charging the batteries by sending current along the cables connected to the battery bank. Apparently, that makes the converter not necessary, thus removal follows. Maybe if your inverter was removed and a converter installed later, it was necessary to install the converter because of the removal of the inverter.
Some owners do strange things that sometimes have no reason behind the action.
Most inverters I have observed are, like what has been said, they are mounted as close as possible to the battery bank and use large cables. I believe the most I have observed used at least 2/0 welding cable.
Good Luck

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16801

I have the 2008 Seneca FS as well. My inverter is still intact, although not working. I remember it just being plugged into the outlet to the right. It was hooked to the breaker that ran the front entertainment center only.
image1.jpeg
The plug in the pic is the plug that comes out of the xantrex. There is a telephone cable that hooks to the controller the round white wire goes to the circuit breaker, and the flat one seems to go to this bundle:
image1.jpeg

Sorry if it's hard to follow. Let me know if I can do anything specific to help.

Jay Hitaffer
www. WasabiJay.com
International and National
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Re: Inverter Question [2 Attachments]

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16803
Ahhhhh. Thanks so much. That makes sense.

They jury rigged a plug over to that outlet. So, in the original set up the entertainment center only had power from the inverter? That makes no sense at all. No wonder I couldn't figure out how it worked.

So, going forward, I guess I'm going to rig one of those things people have talked about where the inverter powers the entire AC sub panel. I'll have to be careful to manually disconnected when connected to shore power or running the generator and when using the inverter, I'll have to be careful not to turn on the AC and I'll probably force the fridge to run off LP.

One of the things we wanted was AC power while driving so we have more power in the unit than the 12v outlet in the cab. I don't think I want the fridge running off the inverter while driving.

Peter

Re: Inverter Question

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16804
Yes, it is hard to determine what others have done and why.

I just remembered visiting an rv wrecking yard in KY some time ago that had a Seneca but don't know what is still there. They have 100's of other units along with a large warehouse of parts that have been removed. I actually met a couple from SC that have traveled there to obtain seats. It is called Visone RV.com at East Bernstadt, KY, 606-843-9889. I believe you can go to their web page and look at some of their parts. They may have some parts that would assist you.
Good Luck,
Don


Re: Inverter Question

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16806
Peter,
It definitely didn't make much sense to me either. I ended up putting in another breaker and running it with all of the other electric. I did get a cheap inverter from a Flying J and have it hooked up under the bed, just in case I wanted to run something off the battery. I rarely use it. It's just so much easier to fire up the generator when I need power.
I think they put the entertainment system on the inverter because everything else could be ran off the battery directly (12v), and all the items that were too big for the inverter had to be powered by the generator. It's more common now to see RV's with high end true sine inverters that can run almost everything off their high end lithium batteries. But it's still a pretty expensive upgrade. So, I'm still running the generator for pretty much everything.
Let me know if you need any other pics or anything.
All the best!

Jay Hitaffer
www. WasabiJay.com
International and National
Touring and Recording Artist
Bass Guitar/Keyboards/Vocals
AS IF! Bassist
www. NinetiesBand.com
Deathbed Motorcade Bassist
www. Facebook.com/DeathbedMotorcade

Saints of Rebellion Bassist
www. SaintsofRebellion.com
Geisha Down Bassist
www. GeishaDown.com
King Belvedere Bassist
www. KingBelvedere.com
Wasabi Brothers Bassist
www. WasabiBrothersBand.com
Spector Bass Endorsement
www. SpectorBass.com
MarkBass Endorsement
www. MarkBass.It
Audio 2000s Endorsement
www. Audio2000s.com
Clayton Custom Picks
www. SteveClayton.com
Secksey Wear Custom Stage Wear
www. SeckseyWear.com


Re: Inverter Question

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 16818
Nothing ilike this n my 2008 Gulfstream Endura either. The transfer switch is located in a basement storage area with the power cord and most of the 120v and 12v cables are under the cabinet next to the sink.

I hooked up a Xantrex Prosine 1800 into this space. The inverter includes an internal transfer switch. A little far from the batteries which are on the opposite side directly across the coach but I used 4/0 battery cables to power the inverter. Battery replacement is in the near future for higher amperage. .

I ended up changing out the distribution panel from a 50 am Progressive Dynamics to a 50/30 panel from Best Converter. This is similar to adding a 30 amp sub-panel but much cleaner and it fit perfectly into the location the panel was originally in. The inverter is hooked up to a 20 amp circuit from the 50 amp side of the panel and returns to the panel to a 20 amp circuit. The 30 amp side powers all the 120v electrical plugs including the microwave, bathroom and entertainment centers (front and rear). The Air conditioners are only powered when there is shore or generator power.

The 12 volt panel runs directly from the cable connected to a battery switch and then to to the batteries. There is no reason to hook up the inverter 120v to the 12 v distribution panel since it is powered directly from the panel. The converter is connected to the 50 amp side of the panel so the inverter isn't powering the converter when it is inverting 12v to 120.

Hope this helps

Ron