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Yahoo Message Number: 2175
Went up to the Forth Worth TX RV show this weekend. The wife is looking for ideas on a remodel.

A couple of observations - the show had a cover charge of 7$, with coupon and senior discounts you could get in for $5. The show was packed. If there is an economic downturn it does not appear to have impacted Fort Worth ! I spoke with some sales folks and they confessed that there is more looking than selling, but they were all pleased by the crowds.

The show filled several halls in the convention center and was wall to wall.

Jayco at the show was principally carried by Voght - their dealer in the area. http://www.vogtrv.com/ They had a Greyhawk (28 QB Sport) and several Seneca's. The only things that grabbed me on the new units is the flush mounting of the stove. The mounting of the new flat screen in the Seneca bedroom looks like a kluge.

Embark: I asked to see the "New unit built on the Freightliner chassis". The sales person told me that they did not have one at the show or at the lot, and confessed that in this market, they were not going to get one on speculation, because the pricing is a "bit much".

Insignia: I asked to see the "New Class A", at this he brightened. He said they did have one that was being licensed and brought down and gave me his card to check for arrival dates.

That is all the news that is fit to click.

Kevin

Re: TX and Tampa Show

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2176
Thanks Kevin. I've been pondering what to say about the Tampa show so long it is almost history now.

I thought the attendance was good but seemed to be far less crowded than our only previous visit a few years ago.

As in TX, Jayco was represented by a dealer - Bates.

When we were at the Tampa show a few years ago Lazy Days did not participate - they had their own show at the same time.

For this show, LD was there in force - it represented the following manufacturers based on a special show map LD provided:

Carriage RV
K-Z RV
Tiffin
Glendale
Damon
Forest River
Winnebago
Monaco (all lines)
Fleetwood

Deals being offered seemed to be better than any I've seen offered in the past. One would have to be careful though as many were on 2008 models (lots of them around).

DW and I have to say we sure liked the floor plans of many Class A units that have bunk beds with the drop down TV screens. They would sure meet our needs well.

We did spend a fair amount of time climbing around the Gulf Steam Silver Bullet and Super Max models. They were referred to earlier and are on the Ram 5500. These seem to have some nice features but the cabs just didn't cut it. Seating was far too low for our comfort, no arm rests, no power seats, etc.

We did spend some time looking at Class A gas and pushers. Models on display really depended on what the representing dealer had in stock - so it was not often a very good cross section of the products of the manufacturer. What surprised us to some degree was the quality of the Fleetwood products we inspected. We had the feeling it had come up several notches over the past few years. We were surprised to see just how nice the Bounder DP's were - far nicer than the Monaco bottom end DPs (Vacationer).

As I mentioned earlier I was surprised to see the numbers on the labels of the two Seneca's provided by Bates RV. This confirmed my feeling that most Senecas should not attempt to tow Tahoes and Suburbans. I'll post the weight labels in the photo section. Here are the numbers for a 36MS and a 35GS.

The MS was simply impossible. UVW (no water, propane, people or cargo) was 20,093 lbs. Our Tahoe weighs 5700 with no cargo. So, we could not exceed 20,300 lbs in the MH. Well, 20,093 plus the total weight of DW, son and self is 555 lbs. That takes it to 20,648. Then count in about 1/3 of a tank of fresh water and something in the black and grey tanks (can't always empty them when they are low). Then food, air compressor, golf clubs, clothes, computers, sewing machine, craft and quilting items, blender, toaster, kettle, cutlery, dishes, pots, pans, bedding, 2 ceramic heaters, bbq, tools, wash brushes, surge protector, tow bar, propane, etc - and we'd be WAY short of the 5700 lbs needed for the Tahoe.

The UVW for the 35GS was a lower at 19,426 but still not acceptable.

What bugged me at the show was listening to a salesman and potential customer in one of the Senecas as he gave her the hard sell. One reason he gave for the diesel over a gas C or A was its great towing capacity. DW could observe that I had to bite my tongue to keep from shouting "learn something about what you sell buddy."

I've seen comments on RV.net that one should look at the Kodiak diesel to haul heavier loads rather than the gasser. When we did our due diligence we concluded the Seneca was not able to tow our Tahoe and thus we went for the Grayhawk (we also wanted something considerably shorter than the 40 ft 10 inches we had previously).

I wonder how Kodiak diesels stand up on the weight and towing front for other makes? Anyone able to supply the comparable numbers?

Don

ps. For some time I've been making a point of looking at every Kodiak and TopKick (gas and diesel) that I spot on the road. What I have not been seeing at all (with only one small exception) is these Medium Duty Trucks with an overhang behind the rear wheels like those we see when this chassis is used for motorhomes. Those thoughts take me to the issue of the center of gravity and GM's design parameters and what has been done to it when it goes out the door loaded to the hilt by RV manufacturers - and what that does to stability. More on these thoughts later - and please toss in your own thoughts on this issue.


On 27-Jan-09, at 6:01 PM, Kevin (Real) McCoy wrote:

Re: TX and Tampa Show

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2177

Don,

As you know, the issues you expressed have been on my soapbox for sometime. I submit that most salesmen ARE aware of what they are selling, but that the "almighty dollar" is far more important than honestly representing what they are selling.

I do not expect the industry will "fess up" to the lies they are telling the RV consumers anytime soon, at least as long as they can continue to buy the silence of the "complainers" without the intervention of the NHTSA.

Denny