Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair (Read 813 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair

Yahoo Message Number: 7366
Attachments :

    A few years now I have been thinking about fixing the ceiling above the shower. The garnish is damaged, and the headliner gets stained by moisture and mildew. In our year of Jayco Seneca 34 HD the ceilings were covered with a carpet like material. This material is treated so that it will resist mold, but above a shower this is difficult.(RV and Motor Home "Headliner" http://www.ozite.com/)


    Note broken Garnish, and discolored Headliner

    I consulted with the group and got several suggestions on materials to use, and I started with the idea of replacing the Headliner with FRP - Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic, based on the suggestion from Russ Hill.

    Inner Garnish:The first step was to order any long lead time parts, and in my case that was the "Inner Garnish" for the skylight. It has been damaged since I purchased Roscoe Ventura (Used).The garnish has a shape called "Neo-Angle" with dimensions X=22 and Y=10.My hopes of doing anything off the shelf evaporated because of the fixture mounting required.


    Can you say Neo Angle?I knew you could.

    So a standard inner garnish would not do and I contacted Jayco and was pleasantly surprised to get an Inner Garnish with fixture mounting area for less than $50.


    Note light mounted on broken Skylight Inner Garnish- Garnish cracks and rusted screws

    Screwed:Another observation: the screws used to mount the garnish appear to have been zinc or galvanized and then the heads were enameled. This did not hold up well. My plan is to replace all of these with stainless steel that will not rust when they get wet.

    Garnish Cracks:Close examination of the garnish reveals that 4 of 8 screw mounting areas were cracked. My guess is that they used a power drill to mount the screws with too much torque. My plan is to 1) Drill the holes out in the new garnish to accommodate the #8 stainless steel screws, 2) use washers, and 3) Caulk.


    4 of 8 screw areas were cracked also note rust

    Starting the project

    I started the project by removing the trim from the area of the shower. This is light wood covered with facing.

    Next I sprayed the headliner with rubbing alcohol. The purpose of this is to kill any mold and or spores on the headliner. There are few chemicals that work well on Mold spores, and some that you think would work (bleach) are ineffective. So I got a spray bottle from WalMart and went to town. The good news is that it dries quickly.

    Next I used blue tape to outline the headliner that I want to remove:


    Headliner Replacement area - approximate dimensions

    This shape was to line up with the current Neo Angle skylight and shower front.

    Then I removed the Headliner from areas within the blue tape. Some areas were adhered very strongly and some were not.

    Now here was a place where I could have used a big bubble - but that would have been too easy ;-)I guess it sticks where you want to take it off and it gets bubbles where you want it to stick. Go figure.


    Headliner removal in process

    From best I can tell the headliner was placed across the entire ceiling before other features (partitions, cabinets, etc.) were installed. So the Headliner runs between them.I used a razor to cut adjacent to these areas, and then tucked any loose areas under. Against the wall however I just went ahead and removed the Headliner (see above).

    The Lauan under the Headliner appears to be laminated to Styrofoam, and sometimes some thin metal framing.


    After looking at the screws I pulled out (several of which were rusty), I thought I was going to have to replace some of the Lauan. However it appears to be in good shape. I am guessing that was because of the glue that was used to attach the Headliner had the second benefit of preserving the thin plywood and preventing moisture intrusion. The protection lapsed around the screws, and I am thinking that caulking the drill holes prior to placing the screws will be a good idea.

    Adhesive Removal:Speaking of all the good properties of the headliner glue, it has got to go. We are going to use Liquid Nails FRP Adhesive, and I doubt it will appreciate that dried yellow gunk.I found that a sponge brush with Mineral Spirits would soften it up enough for a putty knife to take it off. Use lots of masking tape to protect the wood and walls as you move slowly across the thin plywood surface. After scraping a 3M stripping pad worked well for finishing.I used a drop cloth under the ceiling and taped to the walls to catch any falling mineral spirits or loosened glue.


    Removing the adhesive

    In the photo you can see an area where the adhesive has been removed, and an area where the adhesive remains.

    Move Fixture to New Garnish:I used drying time to break out the new garnish and move the fixture from the old garnish to the new one.


    Shower Light on New Garnish

    Use a hole saw to put a one inch hole in the back of the garnish for the feed wires.I attached the fixture to the garnish with 4 #8 stainless steel screws. This confirmed my guess with respect to the fragility of the plastic for the garnish.I had used a 7/64 drill bit and could hear the plastic strain.I need the tension for this mounting and there were no cracks. Still I went around the 8 mounting holes in the garnish and re-drilled them with a 9/64 inch bit.

    Pre Caulk:Having removed the Headliner from the wall areas I left some significant gaps that needed to be sealed prior to FRP installation.


    Caulk the Headliner gap

    Template:The shape being odd, and the dimensions all over the map - I decided to build a cardboard template of the FRP piece. Glad I did, when I tried to move the cardboard model into position it could not clear the narrow space!Either over the glass, or through the shower, there was no way to get a continuous pre-cut piece to fit cleanly (At least without getting adhesive everywhere!)The alternative is to break the area up into sections and do each section.I kind of like the idea because it gives me some time to practice on the adhesive in incremental steps. And, if I mess up a piece, I just have to redo that piece. The downside is more joins and trim.

    FRP:I had a 4 x 8 sheet cut in half at Home Depot. That left me with two 4 x 4 chunks to play with.I used Wiss A 10 BSL Tinner snips to cut the FRP.My thinking is put as little fiberglass into the air as possible.I thought that Snips would accomplish the cut with less dust than any kind of saw I could think of. Nevertheless I wore my safety glasses, breather mask, and gloves, and after a bit of cutting the Tinner Snips did have a fine coating of dust.I do believe the offset snips do give a slight advantage of making a straighter cut.



    After looking at the lauan above the shower I realized that it is just laminated directly to the foam insulation without a metal layer.I surmised that I could not use any screw to get purchase for the panels. For that reason I elected to use nylon rivets as fasteners. My hope is that by the expansion of the rivet I can get purchase for the FRP panel against the Lauan and the interior foam, as best as that can be accomplished.


    Nylon Rivets -

    Well, enough preparation it is time to put our first panel up.I used a plastic spoon to put FRP adhesive onto the trowel, and then spread it evenly to the edges with the trowel.I did this on a plastic bag.I then put the piece in position and used the same roller I use for Eternabond installation to roll it to the ceiling.I then put a bead of silicon on the nylon rivets and drove them home.


    First Panel up

    Some adhesive did get on the front of the FRP through the rivet holes, and I cleaned that up with mineral spirits and paper towels.I tied a trash bag outside the rig to place all the fouled plastic and paper towels to keep from inhaling any of the fumes.

    FRP Tip:Drilling the holes for the Rivets I notice that if you run your drill at high speed the plastic melts and then cools on your drill bit.I imagine the same thing would happen to a power saw.I suggest drilling at slow speed to keep the heat down. Also the manufacturer advises to provide a 1/8 inch additional space to any drill hole sizes. That worked great for the rivets. For example a 3/8 inch hole for a ΒΌ inch rivet.

    FRP Done: So moving piece by piece with molding the FRP is done:


    FRP panels done

    Garnish Installation - Now I removed the fixture from the garnish to make it easier to install.I positioned the Garnish, and of course it is slightly different from the old one.I marked the screw points and drilled new holes. This is not recommended for FRP, but it seemed the way to go.

    The Garnish Mounted (using the Stainless Steel #8 Screws and washers) with no strain at all.I also caulked the edge to keep moisture from getting into the skylight space.

    Now I reconnected the fixture, and the project is mostly done except for caulking, some additional trim pieces, and general clean up:


    Almost done - Trim and caulking to go

    I fell in love with the rivets and went a little overboard at the end!

    Well that is about it. Hopefully you folks with newer units with different ceiling covers, or alternate manufacturers will not run into this problem with the headliner.

    Suggestions welcome.

    Kevin

    Kevin (Real) McCoy [KF5FUZ / WQJE447]
    ("Roscoe Ventura" Jayco Seneca HD SS 34 Diesel 2006; "Toad" Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 2007)

    Re: Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair

    Reply #1 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 7367
    Nice repair. Should be good for many years.
    Couple of notes. The ceiling/roof is installed after all interior walls and floor mounted cabinets are installed. That is why you find the ceiling covering under cabinets and walls. Just like flooring, it is glued/stapled to the sub-surface before roof/ceiling is put on.
    Our MH has the same ceiling material. Have not seen the same type of mold/staining that you have. Hope it stays that way.
    I got some new LEDs recently. Looking at Sandy's warm lighting wants. I found these lights.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170672957875&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT .
    They sure work good,
    Also found these. They are bright and are priced at a good point.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370527501526&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT .
    Best
    Ron Hall

    Re: Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair

    Reply #2 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 7370
    Thanks for thinking of Sandy! Love the price and love free shipping. Picked up some this morning.

    Thank you!!!

    Kevin

    Re: Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair

    Reply #3 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 7371
    2 things that I should mention. Some have mentioned that the circuit in these could cause RFI that may affect your Ham radio's. I have no problems with my radio's or TV's.
    You may have to change wiring to lights to get lights facing down.
    Best
    Ron Hall

    Re: RFI and LEDs

    Reply #4 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 7372
    Attachments :

      Ewwww. RFI - hate it. Goodness. Will check them out when they arrive.

      Here is a picture I took of a quick dipole I put up here in TX. Tight folded dipole ("Cobra") allowed me to work 80 meters, but the dipole is only 73'. Just in time for the lightning storm coming in from the North. No rain though )-;

      Kevin (Look up and live) McCoy KF5FUZ

      Dipole at the RV

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #5 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7373
      You may not have a problem with RFI. Guy complaining was using it in a 8' square popup with all his equipment and LED's in that small space.
      Oldest son is coming to our place this week. Will have to show him your antenna. He is a avid Ham Operator.
      Best
      Ron Hall

      Re: Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair

      Reply #6 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7378
      Kevin, a couple of days ago I made this statement:

      Gail, don't worry - keep sending your questions. That is the reason this group exists.  IMO it is one of the most informative groups in the RV realm - even if one no longer has a Kodiak chassis.
      Don

      So, you just had to illustrate that I was right, didn't you? :)

      Don


      Re: Got to love that Headliner - Shower Repair

      Reply #7 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7380
      Don, I aspire to be 42% as good as Ron and/or Craig!

      One of the great things is to look over folks shoulders at what others have tried, and then get what will work best for our needs.

      Plus we all have to stay humble. Sandy was off helping her Mom, and I used that time to complete work on the shower. When she got back she looked at it and said, "That's nice, should be easier to clean. Oh, but what I REALLY LOVE is the new paper towel dispenser!" Go figure.

      K

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #8 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7437
      Got the LED's Friday. Installed them. Not my thing. The lights have a color very similar to original 921 blubs. But they are not white enough for me. Must be old age setting in. All the florescent lights in our MH have been converted to daylight color. Much whiter than a warm or soft white light.
      I have ordered 10 more 6500 to 7000k Led's of the same type lights.
      Best
      Ron Hall

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #10 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7439
      Let us know when they come in and how they work...also looking for brighter ones so if they do the job let us know where to get them at. Thanks Gary

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #11 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7442
      Couple of things. I ordered the new lights from here.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/1x-T10-194-168-921-W5W-Bulb-Lamp-24-1210SMD-LED-White-Y-/170672956701?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bce6a51d

      I bought some 12 LED lights earlier. Even though they are only 12 LEDs each LED puts out light equal to 2 of the other LEDs.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/10x-T10-194-168-921-W5W-Bulb-Lamp-12-SMD-LED-White-Y-/180701054835?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a129f4773

      The 12 LED lights draw 1.3 watts. 24 LED lights .85 watts. I have the 12 LEDs in place. But needed 10 of them to do all the lights in my MH. I only bought 6. Hope the 24 lamps will be bright enough.
      Seller sells all their lights in single and sets of 10. Just look at their other items. Make sure you need Wedge lights in your fixtures. I can recommend others if you have 1156 type bayonet lights.
      For those that may be concerned about buying from China. The sellers have been very good. One seller sent me a bad light. Sent a message. They refunded my money for a pair even no damage was on second light. All LEDs that I have bought in the states come from China. They are usually double to triple the price of what I get from China. So far only one out of over 100 lights has failed. Not bad when you consider that most are $5 or less. Compared to $15 + from US sellers. Orders usually take 10 days to 2 weeks to arrive.
      Best
      Ron Hall

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #12 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7445
      Ron,
      I ordered some of the same bulbs from the same place about a week ago and can't wait to get them! Do you know any where to get the LED bulbs that replace the small 12 volt florescent lights bulbs used in our motorhomes as ceilings and under counter lights. I know they make them but they are big $$. I would like to have the LED as the florescent don't seem to last very long for me.
      Larry Myers

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #13 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7448
      I would like to find something to replace the florescent. But all I have found has been expensive. Plus it requires rewiring the fixture to remove the transformer and wiring.
      My suggestion would be to buy fixtures that will use the LED's and mount them in place of the Florescent lights.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Double-Interior-RV-Cargo-Trailer-Ceiling-Dome-Light-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem336a2126c1QQitemZ220823889601QQptZMotorsQ5fRVQ5fTrailerQ5fCamperQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

      Best
      Ron Hall

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #14 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7471
      Got the 24 LED lights yesterday. I like them. They are much whiter than the warm white lights. I cannot tell the difference between the 12 and 24 LED lights. Wish I had a way of measuring the actual light output of these bulbs. As Kevin has said. White and Warm light are different to everyone.
      Anyone else get their bulbs yet? Do you have reports how you like or dislike them?
      Best
      Ron Hall

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #15 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7477
      I received my lights yesterday and put two in my out side lights on the Seneca Nice bulbs, Great price, and really bright white lights. I like them!!
      Larry Myers

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #17 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7479
      I have installed these LED's in 2 RV's recently. Owners couldn't be happier. That's a total of over 50 blubs. Almost cheaper than buying replacement 921 blubs.
      For those that need 1141/1156 bayonet bulbs. Here are some that I have used. 68 LED. Bright.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649&item=120764553984&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

      102 LED. Very Bright.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320736203985&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

      These bulbs are more expensive than the Wedge type. Here are some that worked well for a friends RV. Not as bright. But 200 lumens in a double overhead light will work OK. 42 LED.

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-Car-1156-Tail-Brake-White-42-SMD-LED-Light-Bulb-Lamp-/270790521274?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f0c5f71ba

      Please remember that these are bright white. Not warm white.

      Best
      Ron Hall

      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #18 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7483
      The bulbs cost $1.00 each and 2.39 shipping each?

      From: "don_mcl"
      To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 5:24:41 PM
      Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: RFI and LEDs


      i bought these

      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370527501526&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

      for the overhead fixtures on our haulmark i thought these would work better.

      @ $1.00 for two of these bulbs i thought the $2.39 for shipping was reasonable.

      it worked out that i get 20 of them for $33.90.

      don


      Re: RFI and LEDs

      Reply #19 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 7504
      Yes, we just got home and the packages were here.

      10 individual packages with 2 bulbs in each package.

      bottom line, my paypal account was charged $33.90 for 20 bulbs or $1.70 each

      don