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Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

Yahoo Message Number: 3147
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    So it all started with this lightning strike/power loss at the RV storage facility. I knew something was up when I got there and all the alarms were going off. An ostentatious class A on my row had blown a battery - not sure how that happened but it was messy.
    At my coach the first thing I notice was that my surge protector was fried.

    I must admit that Surge Guard is not my favorite. Still this one had helped me twice - Once in the Black Hills , and this time. I got a deal on this unit when I picked up the Jayco, and well, I was willing to live with it. Some postings on service and recession performance of Surge Guard got me motivated to skip trying to get it repaired - and to go back to my favorite - Progressive. I love the Progressive meter. It is really helpful for error codes, understanding how many Amps you are using on what lines....

    Progressive Surge Protector with Meter
    After using it this summer I find that I cannot live without it. A glance at this meter tells you a lot about incoming power, and a lot about how much power you are using and where. A great help.
    The following URL has a dated but good comparison chart of the two surge protectors.
    http://viprv.com/ems/ems-chart.htm
    Kevin
    Jayco Seneca HD 34 SS Diesel 2006

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #1 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3151
    I use the: Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C Surge Protector with Voltage Protection and Remote Display.
    EMS_HW50C.jpg Progressive Industries Surge Protector picture by BPiner
    I have been using it for about a year now and am very pleased with the unit - back in July we had lightening strike a pole about a hundred feet from our RV. The pole supplied power and cable to the row that three of us were parked on. Me and the motor home on one side of me both had surge protection... all three of us lost our TVs. The trailer on the other side of me did not have surge protection, he lost his TV, refrigerator, a/c, radio, and a few other items that I can't remember.
    The surge also came in through the cable, which I did not have surge protection for:(( Anyways, I am happy with the performance of the surge protection feature.
    The nicest part of the EMS-HW50C is the display. The display displays the voltage and amperage of both power legs coming in to the RV. When we are using a 30amp supply, the wife can watch to see how much amperage see us using and limit usage accordingly - we have not tripped a breaker since installing the unit:)
    The unit also protect against other electrical problems, including but not limited to: open grounds and neutrals, reverse polarity, high or low voltage, etc... - it's great not having to test every power pedestal, now.
    One thing I still need to fix is - when I originally installed the unit, I installed it on the shore power line before it goes into the transfer switch. As is, it does not protect my power coming from the generator. I plan to switch the connection so that it protects the power coming out of the transfer switch so that it will protect all the power coming it to the coach.

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #2 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3152
    Kevin, allow me to make some observations.

    This comparison was obviously done by Progressive - at least locking at the errors it would seem that way to me.

    Surge Guard does have protection. They sell a very good locking hasp - and I have it - works very well. We got it when we had our Winnie so at least it moved with us and we didn't have to keep buying a new surge protector every time we changed MHs. With the Winnie and Ambassador the connection to the MH was in a locked bay so the locking hasp worked well by itself. With the Greyhawk it is simply a connection to the side of the MH and locking the Surge Guard to the power cord means nothing. So, when there is a pedestal with a lock box I have a lock for it. When there isn't, I feed the power cable under the MH via the generator cage and have a steel cable and lock to attach it to provide protection. It gets a bit more complex if I need an extension as we found in some state or provincial parks (30 amp to the 50amp). The Surge Guard still works but I have to lock it to the post if there is no lock box.

    It doesn't have a volt meter but I have one plugged into an outlet in the MH at all times and it appears that provides the same benefits as the built in - perhaps even better as I don't have to go outside to read it or buy a remote.

    We've been saved several times. One at a track my son races at power was so low one weekend the Surge Guard kept shutting off and we had to use the gennie. At our park in Florida we had problems twice - VERY high voltage and it would just keep shutting off. The first time on a rented lot and the owner called FPL. The guy who came out was PO'd and said I should disconnect that stupid thing. The lot owner asked if FPL would pay the cost of replacing everything that burnt out. He then said he would check the voltage coming in and if it was fine it was our problem. Well, the voltage coming in was well about 260 and he wasn't so arrogant after that. Turned out the entire park was high. Several people had electronic equipment (TVs and modems fail around that time - but trying to prove it and making a claim is very difficult).

    A year later it happened again - this time on the lot we bought. I called FPL and in the end they thanked me. Not only was our entire park over over 260 (note my 34750 specs says it does handle 240 - another thing I'm puzzled at in the table you provided which says it doesn't. The specs for mine also say it does handles open neutral - and this chart is wrong on that as well. ), the amazing thing (given the controls they are supposed to have at FPL) the entire area was too high and they had to realign the grid. I got to listen to the guy on his phone system as they made changes and he rechecked.

    The end result is I will not connect my MH to anything until my Surge Guard is connected and gives the all clear.

    It is clear to me that potential buyers and users (which should mean everyone with a MH) should not place to much reliance on the comparison chart you provided as it has far to many errors that even I (a layman when it comes to electricity) could spot quickly - so who knows how many more items could be incorrect.

    Don

    BTW, in our previous home we had a concrete pad and 50 amp power for the MH. Even at home I had the Surge Guard connected and it saved me there once. That home was built in 1974. Over the years one of the two power inputs corroded and one day the power started going bonkers. I went out to the MH and got the volt meter. Some connections I tested seemed fine but others had amazing swings from high to low. I called our local power company and they said that shorting was the problem and would have to be fixed - and since it was inside it would be my nickel. Well, I pointed out that I had a problem - NO main circuit breaker so how do I shut it down to fix it. That was embarrassing as the installation should never have been approved by them. So, they nicely disconnected the power at the meter, cut off 3 inches of the cable at the end that had corroded (there was adequate extra cable), reconnected it and said "there you are sir, no charge." Only problem is that it cost me $500 to have the controls in my hot tub replaced. The fluctuating voltage on the bad circuit destroyed them.

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #3 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3156
    Don, great post.
    I guess I owe Surge Guard a bit more loyalty as it saved Roscoe Ventura Twice!
    I guess we can agree that
    "electrical events" happen (Low, High, wiring, and surges)
    A surge protector for the coach is a good thing (seems to have saved us both)
    Surge protection at the device level and across all external connections (Cable, Phone) is a good thing for sensitive electronic equipment.
    What type of meter are you using?
    Kevin
    Jayco Seneca HD 34 SS Diesel (2006)

    center
    From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Leslie
    Sent: Sunday, October 18, 2009 7:15 PM
    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    left

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #4 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3157
    I agree, based on our experience a Surge Protector is a must. I first woke up to this need when at a Itasca dealer who was installing the tow package on our Colorado. I saw a Meridian sitting on the lot that wasn't new and asked about it. The dealer said they had just spent $18,000 replacing most electronics because of a large power surge from lightening. They didn't have a surge protector.

    I just use a cheapo from Camping World. It shows voltage a little lower than the actual number. I also have a multimeter in the MH and periodically check the voltage on both circuits at the park.

    The voltage became a big issue with DW when we found that lower voltage often meant using the convection oven was a real chore and it took it forever to preheat. As a result she is not a fan of convection ovens. We ordered our Greyhawk without the convection feature but with a propane oven. It still came with the convection feature. Ironically she has only used the propane oven once in more than 2 years. She has never used the convection feature in this MH.

    When our dealer checked the convection oven in the unit in the Winnie (Sharp I think) he had it replaced since he figured it wasn't working right taking so long to preheat. The new unit wasn't much better.

    Don

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #5 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3158
    So sounds like here is another accessory I better buy. Whats the best deal and place to order one of these? Seems like around $350 is the going rate.

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #6 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3159
    Check out Camper World . com. They have them on sale. Any opinions on these would be a great help as I am shopping to.
    Denny

    From: leej211979
    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 7:37:32 AM
    Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    So sounds like here is another accessory I better buy. Whats the best deal and place to order one of these? Seems like around $350 is the going rate.

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #7 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3160

    The cheapest I found the "Surge Guard" brand 50 amp portable(green one) is $299 + sh. I always thought the permanent mount would be the nicer setup, but I believe Don is the one who mentioned a portable could be taken with you if you trade RV's...good point.

    Roger

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #8 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3161
    Roger I think we have saved some money. In our Greyhawk I would have had a terrible time trying to install the permanent mount inside the MH behind the plug on the outside. Ron Hall would have said it was a piece of cake, of course (but I have five thumbs on each hand). If your power connector is in a storage bay, that makes it much easier I gather.

    I'd be included to look at both the Surge Guard and Progressive. Comparing features is helpful providing you are comparing apples to apples. Surge Guard has a good outline of each of its models on its web site and that can be used to compare to Progressive. One example where one might have to be careful is joules. Progressive says 3500+ and Surge Guard is 1760. BUT, Surge Guard may be talking PER LEG and Progressive has simply double the per leg to get the total for both legs - and thus they are really the same. If that is not the case and Progressive is double, that is a big factor. Not being an electrical guru this stuff can almost make me dizzy.

    Surge Guard shows maximum spike current in amps - and its built in model is so much higher than the portable I have it is making me wonder. I could not find the same number on the Progressive site. Perhaps an electrical guru in the group can look at this and let us know if it is meaningful. The SG built in is 130,000 amps spike protection vs 6500 for the portable. Of course, if spikes over 6500 (or even that high) never occur it doesn't mean much.

    I see on the CW site the 50 amp unit is $300 and they have a new type of locking hasp that looks even better.

    Don

    ps. Sorry for the rushed comments. We leave for Australia and NZ for 52 days shortly and I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off. DW suddenly made it clear she wants the extended warranty on her Equinox (warranty expires in 5 days) so I have to get that done. I wanted to trade her 2006 for the 2010 which is towable 4 down but we really have no time before we leave. The dealer said if we do that they will transfer the unused portion to the new unit. Anyone looked at the 2010 Equinox for towing? Blue Ox doesn't list the tow plates yet.

    Total amps that it can handle also looks like an interesting number.

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #9 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3162
    Yes, I think it has proved a good investment. One of the few in our experience.
    I have been having good luck lately at tweetys. I look on camping world to find what I want (well organized and easy to find stuff) and then buy it at Tweetys (poorly organized and hard to find stuff, but CHEAPER ;-).

    On surge protectors check out
    http://www.tweetys.com/progressive-industries-surge-protectors.aspx

    K

    center
    From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of leej211979
    Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:38 AM
    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    left

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #10 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3163
    I have a portable 50 amp Surge Guard. Got tired of hooking it up each time we went to a new campground. Made a bracket to hold unit on wall in electrical compartment. Cut off the power cord inside compartment. Installed male and female ends on cut cord. Plugged the cord ends into Surge Guard. I now have a portable unit that can be plugged in.
    For those that have doubts about using one. Bad electrical can happen at home also. My MH is plugged into 50 amp service at the barn. I was walking by MH one day a heard a clicking sound. It was the Surge Guard detecting over/under voltage. Found that one leg was 140 volts. Other leg was 106. After some trouble shooting found that a ground connection was bad on overhead wires between house and barn. The converter is on this line. I have no idea what would have happened but I am sure the converter would not have liked it.

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #11 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3164
    I use the portable Surge Guard as well. Also made up a short lead cord (surge to coach) as well as a new supply cord and then I hang (hide) the surge in the generator compartment and lock the compartment door. Out of sight/out of mind..Since we will never put a 50amp load on the sysystem I used 8/4 cord (40amp)..little easier to handle

    Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Reply #12 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3170
    That sort of amprage (130,000) is direct lightning srike stuff. If you live or camp on the great planes where your rig may be the tallest thing around, then it might be worth it. Otherwise I just don't see ever seeing that sort of current surge. When you start talking joules, it gets complex...A joule is a watt second and watts over voltage times the cos of the phase angle equals amprage.
    so to translate joules into Amps, I would need to know what voltage they figured it at, and how long their "spike current" is, then figure the worst case sinario and asume the cos of the phase angle is 1.
    All of this is a fancy way to say, I can't translate it directly with the information given.
    However went to both sites, read the literature, and I can tell you that prices being in the same ball park I'm buying a progessive. Do you need all that surge protection? well probably not, but the 50 amp built in from progressive looks like by far the better rig, it should take not just your average surge, but a lighting strike or the shorting of two phases (casued by a car hitting a power pole or equivilent)
    Morrigan
    (who's a professional marine electician for Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.)
    Islam delenda est.

    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    From: grandriver125@...
    Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:43:06 -0400
    Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Surge Protector - Surge Guard VS Progressive

    Roger I think we have saved some money. In our Greyhawk I would have had a terrible time trying to install the permanent mount inside the MH behind the plug on the outside. Ron Hall would have said it was a piece of cake, of course (but I have five thumbs on each hand). If your power connector is in a storage bay, that makes it much easier I gather.

    I'd be included to look at both the Surge Guard and Progressive. Comparing features is helpful providing you are comparing apples to apples. Surge Guard has a good outline of each of its models on its web site and that can be used to compare to Progressive. One example where one might have to be careful is joules. Progressive says 3500+ and Surge Guard is 1760. BUT, Surge Guard may be talking PER LEG and Progressive has simply double the per leg to get the total for both legs - and thus they are really the same. If that is not the case and Progressive is double, that is a big factor. Not being an electrical guru this stuff can almost make me dizzy.

    Surge Guard shows maximum spike current in amps - and its built in model is so much higher than the portable I have it is making me wonder. I could not find the same number on the Progressive site. Perhaps an electrical guru in the group can look at this and let us know if it is meaningful. The SG built in is 130,000 amps spike protection vs 6500 for the portable. Of course, if spikes over 6500 (or even that high) never occur it doesn't mean much.

    I see on the CW site the 50 amp unit is $300 and they have a new type of locking hasp that looks even better.

    Don

    ps. Sorry for the rushed comments. We leave for Australia and NZ for 52 days shortly and I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off. DW suddenly made it clear she wants the extended warranty on her Equinox (warranty expires in 5 days) so I have to get that done. I wanted to trade her 2006 for the 2010 which is towable 4 down but we really have no time before we leave. The dealer said if we do that they will transfer the unused portion to the new unit. Anyone looked at the 2010 Equinox for towing? Blue Ox doesn't list the tow plates yet.

    Total amps that it can handle also looks like an interesting number.

    surge protector

    Reply #13 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3165
    Normally i just read the messages and you answer most of my questions; however this is the second response in a week. Reading with interest regarding protecting the eltc. Been on line to CW and they have a surge guard mod.34750 50A with a green body for $307.00. I read about a locking device but did not see it in the picture could someone fill me in and also is this a good unit, as we know price does not always donte quality....

    John


    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

    Re: surge protector

    Reply #14 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3166
    You can find the new lock hasp for Surge Guard here
    http://www.surgeguard.com/lock_hasps.html
    Surge Guard is a good product and has done well by me. Still I currently prefer Progressive - and believe it gives more information and is a better product. You may also want to check out the debate on RVNET forums -
    http://www.rv.net/forums/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/21805832/
    Kevin
    Jayco Seneca HD 34 SS Diesel (2006)

    center
    From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Meredith
    Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:17 AM
    To: kodiakchassisclassC@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] surge protector

    left

    Re: surge protector

    Reply #15 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3167
    Question for all. If it happens that one would get a close call lightening strike and the protector takes the hit, is it done for as a sacrifice? If it is then wouldn't it make sense to have the surge protector plugged in at the park power box so you wouldn't have to put out for a new power cord as well? Just a thought. Hard wired and out of sight is nice but it is still to close and inside the RV when it takes the hit. Do these things scatter crap with the hit?
    Denny

    From: Kevin (Real) McCoy
    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 1:42:10 PM
    Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] surge protector


    You can find the new lock hasp for Surge Guard here
    http://www.surgeguard.com/lock_hasps.html
    Surge Guard is a good product and has done well by me. Still I currently prefer Progressive - and believe it gives more information and is a better product. You may also want to check out the debate on RVNET forums -
    http://www.rv. net/forums/ index.cfm/ fuseaction/ thread/tid/ 21805832/
    Kevin
    Jayco Seneca HD 34 SS Diesel (2006)

    From: KodiakChassisClassC @yahoogroups. com [mailto:KodiakChass isClassC@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of John Meredith
    Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:17 AM
    To: kodiakchassisclassC @yahoogroups. com
    Subject: [KodiakChassisClass C] surge protector



    Normally i just read the messages and you answer most of my questions; however this is the second response in a week. Reading with interest regarding protecting the eltc. Been on line to CW and they have a surge guard mod.34750 50A with a green body for $307.00. I read about a locking device but did not see it in the picture could someone fill me in and also is this a good unit, as we know price does not always donte quality....


    John

    _____ __ __ __ __ __

    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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    Re: surge protector

    Reply #17 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3169
    I've put a PDF copy of the article in the files section.

    Don

    Re: surge protector

    Reply #18 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 3171
    The question remains, would you prefer to hard wire a SP in the coach or have it portable and attached to the park power box? After seeing the SP that was hit by lightening my question was answered. End of story.
    Denny

    From: "rsri1@..."
    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Mon, October 19, 2009 6:07:55 PM
    Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] surge protector

    Thats a good ?? so I googled it and the first page had this critter on there.

    Here is the link for the article: http://www.onwheelsinc.com/article/878/hidden_danger_lurks_for_rv_owners


    After lightning strike