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Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Yahoo Message Number: 5388
Hello. I am new here having just purchased a new 2009 Jayco Seneca HD 35GS. Haven't taken delivery of it yet as it is having a few things added. So the moderator suggests we may have a problem before we even get it home. We plan on pulling a 3-horse trailer with it. Has anyone had any experience with this sort of thing? Our trailer is aluminum but we do have fairly large horses. We figure the horses and all the gear will weigh in at 7000 lbs or so. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I will add we have been truck camping with a 1 ton dually and 9.5' camper for many years but this is our first motorhome. We live in Washington State and pull 5000' mountain passes all the time. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5389
Just for clarity, it wasn't our moderator (Ron Hall) who suggested you ask group members about the weight issues. I made the suggestion and I'm the Group Owner (Yahoo's description in its system).

We have a Kodiak gas unit which we bought instead of the diesel because we tow a Tahoe that weighs in at around 5700 lbs. It was my view that we'd often be over the GCWR if we had the 22,000 GVWR Seneca with the same 26,000 GCWR. Our gasser has a GVWR of 19,500 lbs so it leaves 6500 clear for towing.

If your trailer weighs 7,000 lbs your 35GS would have to have an actual weight of 19,000 for you to stay at or under the GCWR. By actual weight I am referring to "on the road" weight (with people, water, fuel, food, beer, wine, computer, etc. etc.) I think you are going to find that very difficult to achieve - but it depends on the UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) of your 35GS (which is, I think, the lightest of the Senecas).

You also have to keep in mind that in determining compliance with the 22,000 GVWR you have to include the tongue weight of your trailer and that is likely to be more than 700 lbs.

Welcome to the group.

Don

Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5390
Just curious if anyone in the group is familiar with GulfStream SuperNova's. I am curious about the units because of the increased diesel, water and grey/black storage over Senecas. Just curious...

From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Leslie
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:19 AM
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.



Just for clarity, it wasn't our moderator (Ron Hall) who suggested you ask group members about the weight issues. I made the suggestion and I'm the Group Owner (Yahoo's description in its system).

We have a Kodiak gas unit which we bought instead of the diesel because we tow a Tahoe that weighs in at around 5700 lbs. It was my view that we'd often be over the GCWR if we had the 22,000 GVWR Seneca with the same 26,000 GCWR. Our gasser has a GVWR of 19,500 lbs so it leaves 6500 clear for towing.


If your trailer weighs 7,000 lbs your 35GS would have to have an actual weight of 19,000 for you to stay at or under the GCWR. By actual weight I am referring to "on the road" weight (with people, water, fuel, food, beer, wine, computer, etc. etc.) I think you are going to find that very difficult to achieve - but it depends on the UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) of your 35GS (which is, I think, the lightest of the Senecas).


You also have to keep in mind that in determining compliance with the 22,000 GVWR you have to include the tongue weight of your trailer and that is likely to be more than 700 lbs.


Welcome to the group.


Don



Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5391
All I can say is load your RV the way you want when departing on your next trip, hook up your horse trailer and go down to the nearest scale and be weighed. As mentioned in earlier posts, when I weighed with my 36MS, full tank of diesel, 1/2 water and clothes and food and whatever else we bring, plus my tow dolly and our Honda Odyssey we hit 27,350lbs. The difference you will have is your tongue weight will by much heavier than mine and weighing yourself will provide you the information you need for your situation.

The problem I have when purchasing a Seneca is when the dealer tells you that you have a 10,000lbs tow package. This could be true but as mentioned from everyone using a Seneca and providing real life experiences when towing, this drops considerably when loaded.

Good Luck,




Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5392
Have looked at them. I'd look at the quality of workmanship, heard complaints about engine noise, hill climbs the Duramax beats it hands down. Chassis is better on Nova
Keith
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed
From: Ian Eisenberg
Sender: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:29:41 -0500
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
ReplyTo: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.


Just curious if anyone in the group is familiar with GulfStream SuperNova's. I am curious about the units because of the increased diesel, water and grey/black storage over Senecas. Just curious...

From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Leslie
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 10:19 AM
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.



Just for clarity, it wasn't our moderator (Ron Hall) who suggested you ask group members about the weight issues. I made the suggestion and I'm the Group Owner (Yahoo's description in its system).

We have a Kodiak gas unit which we bought instead of the diesel because we tow a Tahoe that weighs in at around 5700 lbs. It was my view that we'd often be over the GCWR if we had the 22,000 GVWR Seneca with the same 26,000 GCWR. Our gasser has a GVWR of 19,500 lbs so it leaves 6500 clear for towing.


If your trailer weighs 7,000 lbs your 35GS would have to have an actual weight of 19,000 for you to stay at or under the GCWR. By actual weight I am referring to "on the road" weight (with people, water, fuel, food, beer, wine, computer, etc. etc.) I think you are going to find that very difficult to achieve - but it depends on the UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) of your 35GS (which is, I think, the lightest of the Senecas).


You also have to keep in mind that in determining compliance with the 22,000 GVWR you have to include the tongue weight of your trailer and that is likely to be more than 700 lbs.


Welcome to the group.


Don



Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5395
Hi Newbee . . . As you may have noticed, the Seneca 35GS has a long rear overhang. When you pull your heavy trailer load around corners, there will be considerable side pull on the chassis, with only the leaf spring shackles to handle the side pull stresses and keep you in alignment. While I don't have your load, I do pull a pickup with an additional 1100 pounds of motorcycle and loader in the bed.

Along with other suspension upgrades, I added a TRAC BAR to tie the rear chassis to the differential. This helped tighten things up back there and provided some relief to the spring shackles. Here's the one I chose . . . http://tinyurl.com/25d2dzp

George


Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5403
I don't want to sound like an ass BUT you would not see me pulling a big horse trailer behind that Seneca 35GS.

I think you are in over your head on this one and should have purchased a coach on a bigger chassis - or a much smaller coach on the same chassis - here is exactly why and maybe what you do not want to hear but I am not trying to sell you a coach, but rather save yours and my life.

I am afraid you will find that your GCWR (26,000#s) will not match up with the ratings and that your GVWR (22,000) and bone stock empty your coach is probably tipping the scale over 19,000#s maybe more with the huge diesel genset etc... will not after you get your coach loaded and add in the trailer total weight and required tongue weight to make the trailer ride safely (closer to 1000#s ++ if your full trailer is 7,000 #s) A medium size horse is 1300#s + so lets say you have 3 X 1500# horses = 4500 #s plus all your horse related gear, food (bales of hay, oats water) you trailer may in fact weigh over 7,000#s.

So right off the top you add in propane, water, fuel and an easy 1,000#s of necessary crap inside the MoHo which is what I have at a minimum, you wife and kids plus more shit you will be way over the 19,000#s you needed to be LOADED just to pull you trailer and I think you are optimistic as to the weight of your trailer.

Running at the legal limit is not my idea of fun or safe. Just because it CAN pull it around does not mean its safe. Its how the entire set-up reacts or adverse conditions. My personal pet peeve is are the overloaded RVs spread all over the highway the delay thousands of travelers for hours at a time.

I hope it works out for you - but would have done all this homework way before I dropped any money of a coach that might not meet my requirements.

If you need this all to work correctly you better sort it out NOW - and see if you can cancel your purchase deal if you need to pull your horse trailer.

Good luck.

From: ghorsec
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 10:08:27 AM
Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Hello. I am new here having just purchased a new 2009 Jayco Seneca HD 35GS. Haven't taken delivery of it yet as it is having a few things added. So the moderator suggests we may have a problem before we even get it home. We plan on pulling a 3-horse trailer with it. Has anyone had any experience with this sort of thing? Our trailer is aluminum but we do have fairly large horses. We figure the horses and all the gear will weigh in at 7000 lbs or so. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I will add we have been truck camping with a 1 ton dually and 9.5' camper for many years but this is our first motorhome. We live in Washington State and pull 5000' mountain passes all the time. Thanks for any help you can offer.

Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5406

Hey, where were when I needed you a couple years ago?? As Don knows, I have been an advocate of safely balanced and weighted coaches and loads for years. Not only is weight an issue, but the load must also be balanced. If you are within load limits and more than 50% of your load is on one side, then you are overloaded and safety is a big issue. I still remember the guy on RVNet that got all out of shape because of my "rantings." He argued that he has driven grossly overloaded for years, without one incident. I wonder if he has killed anyone yet.

Anyhow, FYI, NHTSA will do nothing about your RV or the weight issue. The RVIA have them in their "pocket," and NHTSA cares less than zero about our safety. If you Google the RVIA and NHTSA, you will find their offices almost within walking distance to each other, and for good reason. They are buddies. I argued weight distribution and weight safety issues with them and the other guy that promotes weight safety (RV something). Can't think of his name, but the only answer I got was when I can prove that weight issues killed someone, they would take it to the manufacturers. NHTSA also suggested they would likely have to plead with them to do anything about it.

Keep up the good works... maybe more "goshes" and fewer "shits" might gain more support from us prudes however.

Denny

Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5407

This is what I had in the spring and posted then:

JAYCO 35GS, Full tank of fuel, full propane, 25+/- fresh water (1/3 full) 20+/- black water (1/3 full) Fridge full, pantry full, all my gadgets and tools, clothes, etc, etc, etc. Front axle 7,000, rear axle 14,660, = 21,660 add the toad (2007 Canyon crew cab 4wd with the mh spare in the back (tire and steel rim) 4,520. TOTAL 26,180 That puts me less than 1/10 of 1 percent over total.. If we had dumped I think I would be under total...GCVW

Dave Sparke

Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5416
From: George Hooper
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 12:59:15 PM
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Hi Newbee . . . As you may have noticed, the Seneca 35GS has a long rear overhang. When you pull your heavy trailer load around corners, there will be considerable side pull on the chassis, with only the leaf spring shackles to handle the side pull stresses and keep you in alignment. While I don't have your load, I do pull a pickup with an additional 1100 pounds of motorcycle and loader in the bed.

Along with other suspension upgrades, I added a TRAC BAR to tie the rear chassis to the differential. This helped tighten things up back there and provided some relief to the spring shackles. Here's the one I chose . . . http://tinyurl.com/25d2dzp

George



 

Re: Newbie towing a 3 horse trailer.

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5420
David . . . I read about on the Trac Bar on this site and on RV.net. My mechanic, from a large spring/alignment shop in Orlando, also recommended this product since I was towing.

My '07 Seneca suffered from a "top heavy" side to side rocking motion on uneven roads, or for example, when leaving a gas station . To counter this, I added a front anti-sway bar and an additional rear spring leaf each side (some earlier models were not properly sprung. Jayco fixed many, but my previous owner never bothered to have the fix done). This Fall, when I get back to FL (we're out for 6 months), I will change out the shocks for Billstein or Koni to finish my suspension modifications. Many Kodiak Chassis owners have upgraded their suspensions to get better handling. It's a personal preference thing. You'll decide as you drive your new coach.

As Victor said, you're pushing the envelope as far as recommended towing weights for this unit. I don't doubt that the Duramax/Allison combo will move the load, but getting it stopped briskly may prove to be another issue. If it does, some RVers and horse/stock trailer haulers have solved the problem by switching to electric over hydraulic disk brakes. One company, Mor Ryde specializes in this and retro-fits trailers every day. Here's a link: http://tinyurl.com/38brlfp

George