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Some research on LED bulbs

Yahoo Message Number: 6399
Since there would appear to be a movement towards LED light bulbs in the RV world, I thought this might be of interest to our members.

Don

LED bulbs not as eco-friendly as some might think
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LED light bulbs are becoming increasingly popular with designers and consumers of green technology, as they use less electricity, last longer, and emit more light on a pound-for-pound basis than traditional incandescent bulbs. However, while it may be tempting to look at them as having solved the problem of environmentally-unfriendly lighting, researchers from the University of California would advise against such thinking.
Scientists from UC Irvine and UC Davis pulverized multicolored LED Christmas lights, traffic signal lights, and automobile head and brake lights, allowed residue to leach from them, and then analyzed its chemical content. They discovered that low-intensity red LEDs contained up to eight times the amount of lead allowed under California law, although generally brighter bulbs tended to contain the most contaminants. While white bulbs had a lower lead content than their colored counterparts, they still had high levels of nickel.
Besides the lead and nickel, the bulbs and their associated parts were also found to contain arsenic, copper, and other metals that have been linked to different cancers, neurological damage, kidney disease, hypertension, skin rashes and other illnesses in humans, and to ecological damage in waterways. UC Irvine's Oladele Ogunseitan said that while breaking a single bulb and breathing its fumes would not automatically cause cancer, it could be the tipping point for an individual regularly exposed to another carcinogen.
The study found that the production, use and disposal of LEDs all present health risks, which the public should be made aware of. It suggests that a special broom, gloves and mask should be used when cleaning up broken bulbs, and that crews attending to car accidents or broken traffic lights should be required to wear protective gear, and treat the material as hazardous waste.
LEDs are currently not classified as toxic, and are disposed of in conventional landfills.
Ogunseitan blames the situation on a lack of proper product testing before LEDs were presented as a more efficient replacement for incandescent bulbs - which are now being phased out around the world. Although a law requiring more stringent testing for such products was scheduled to begin on January 1st in California, it was opposed by industry groups, and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger put it on hold before leaving office.
"Every day we don't have a law that says you cannot replace an unsafe product with another unsafe product, we're putting people's lives at risk," said Ogunseitan. "And it's a preventable risk."
Incandescent bulbs, incidentally, contain very high levels of lead and mercury, while compact fluorescents are also high in mercury.

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6400
The possibility of a LED light breaking is far less than a incandescent or florescent bulb. They all have there problems.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6413
Ya know folks I am getting so sick and tired of Cal said this and Cal said that. If it were up to them eating a popcicle would cause some kind of enviromental catastropy or disease. For years now the tail (CA) has been wagging the dog. IMOP CA would not be in the problems they have today if only they would stop trying to lead the world out of their perception of whats wrong. Come on.

2006 Seneca 35GS Dmax. Ford Ranger toad.

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6417
I agree. We have several in use and adding more all the time. If one breaks I sure will be cautious when cleaning up the mess.

Don

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6418
I have many LEDs in my MH. I feel sure that every day use and handling will not break these types of LEDs. They are not in the open but in fixtures. No way can they just fall out. I'm thinking that maybe a boot heel would be very destructive but not normal handling. I would be more concerned with the many fluorescent tubes that are in out MHs. A good hard bump could dislodge them and if they break the cleanup would be extensive. As for the Texas U comment, I am tired of some do gooder trying to hold my hand for my own good. I do have a modicome of common sense.

2006 Seneca 35GS Dmax. Ford Ranger toad.

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6419
But my point Dennis is that IF they break I now know that I have to be very careful. We have them on our bikes and last month my BIL was using mine here at the park and fell and broke the rear light which was fairly strong. Fortunately it did not shatter the bulbs - but if that ever happens I will know what to do. Prior to reading this I might have handled it like a regular bulb. Common sense would not have told me that I could have problems cleaning up broken LEDs.

I don't call knowing causes of problems an infringement on my liberties. Let me give you an example. I have cancer - non- Hodgkins lymphoma. One of the suspected causes is herbicides and pesticides used on farms and the incidence of NHL (not the National Hockey League :)) is much higher in farming areas. Well, for the 11 years prior to being diagnosed in 1996 where did we live? In the country on a three acre lot -- RIGHT in the MIDDLE of farms that were using a wide range of sprays. Knowing what I know now would we do that again - not very likely.

So, in a few years we may well find that improperly handled LEDs cause problems - just like the problems they have found with mercury in other types of bulbs. Here in our park in FLA several of the lights are maintained by FPL and they are not replacing burned out mercury vapour bulbs with the same kind - and for a good reason.


D

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6420
I am sorry to hear of your health problems and know what you may be going through. My wife is a cancer survivor of almost 20 years now. My point is that you would probably have to crush a couple of dump truck loads of these LEDs to produce enough toxic material to measure. I for one am not going to worry about the 7 LEDs that are installed in my MH.even if all my lights were LEDs. I will handle them as I would any other bulb and that is with care. Florescent tubes are the bad guys here. They should be handled with gloves and a respirator. With the exception of maybe a headlight bulb the LEDs used in interior light fixtures are really very rugged. I just can't worry about all the stuff that "someone" says "maybe" a cause for some unknown disease. I'm an old retired A/C mechanic with some 40 years of experience and I have changed more light bulbs and tubes then Home Depot has in stock and I have broken a few along the way with no side affects. Life is to short and I will not lock myself in the house because of a possibility. Being cautious is good but don't let it tie you in knots.
Nuff said.

2006 Seneca 35GS Dmax. Ford Ranger toad.

Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6421
Dennis, what I posted was from Gizmag. This morning they had another article that was very interesting. It appears advances in this area are moving ahead VERY quickly with respect to brighter type of LED that likely have fewer potential problems. Today's story follows.


Re: Some research on LED bulbs

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6422
Attachments :

    LED Question.

    On my overhead main lights I replaced the halogen bulbs with these LED Chips. http://led4rv.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=168
    They keep falling out. It seems the pins aren't long enough to fit solidly in the female ends of the fixture. I was thinking of cutting away a little of the metal fittings that go around the female connectors. Has anyone else experienced this?

    From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don Leslie
    Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:21 AM
    To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Some research on LED bulbs

    Dennis, what I posted was from Gizmag. This morning they had another article that was very interesting. It appears advances in this area are moving ahead VERY quickly with respect to brighter type of LED that likely have fewer potential problems. Today's story follows.


    Re: Some research on LED bulbs

    Reply #9 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 6423
    These look like the pins are longer, plus it's only $2.30 shipped.  Might take 2 weeks as they are from Hong Kong...I've have items come in 1 week before.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/G4-6-SMD-LED-Marine-Warm-white-Light-Bulb-Lamp-12V-/270616584774?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f02016246 --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Ian Eisenberg  wrote: From: Ian Eisenberg Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Some research on LED bulbsTo: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com" Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 9:28 AM
    LED Question.
    On my overhead main lights I replaced the halogen bulbs with these LED Chips.  http://led4rv.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=168
     They keep falling out.  It seems the pins aren't long enough to fit solidly in the female ends of the fixture.  I was thinking of cutting away a little of the metal fittings that go around the female connectors.  Has anyone else experienced this?

    Re: Some research on LED bulbs

    Reply #11 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 6425
    I use the 6 LED warm white - http://superlumination.com/

    They have long prongs and do not have the issue you describe.

    They also have much less energy usage with 9.954 Watts for 891
    whereas the Replacement LED uses 0.756 Watts with an easy to explain heat reduction.


    Re: Some research on LED bulbs

    Reply #12 –
    Yahoo Message Number: 6426
    Attachments :

      I tried these but they didn't seem to put out as much light.

      From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin (Real) McCoy
      Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2011 2:22 PM
      To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      I use the 6 LED warm white - http://superlumination.com/

      They have long prongs and do not have the issue you describe.

      They also have much less energy usage with 9.954 Watts for 891
      whereas the Replacement LED uses 0.756 Watts with an easy to explain heat reduction.


      Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      Reply #13 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 6427
      If you have the Seneca with the puck lights on the underside of the dinning slide cabinets and under the cabinet on the oppisite slide you will have to remove the reflector to get the flat plate LED to completely engage the female pins.  The reflector comes out easily with a small common screwdriver.  2006 Seneca 35GS Dmax. Ford Ranger toad. --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Ian Eisenberg  wrote:From: Ian Eisenberg Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Some research on LED bulbsTo: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com" Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 5:28 PM
      LED Question.  On my overhead main lights I replaced the halogen bulbs with these LED Chips.  http://led4rv.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=168They keep falling out.  It seems the pins aren't long enough to fit solidly in the female ends of the fixture.  I was thinking of cutting away a little of the metal fittings that go around the female connectors.  Has anyone else experienced this?

      Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      Reply #14 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 6428
      Attachments :I am talking about the main light fixtures on my ceiling. It is 2010 Seneca HD. In the living room, hallway and bedroom. I would attach a picture but my RV is stored at a storage yard.   In general is it safe to remove the whole reflector/heat shield since the LED's don't put out as much heat as halogen's?

      Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      Reply #15 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 6429
      Are your ceiling lights incandescent or fluorescent?Mine are fluorescent,2006 Seneca 35GS Dmax. Ford Ranger toad. --- On Thu, 2/17/11, Ian Eisenberg  wrote:From: Ian Eisenberg Subject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Some research on LED bulbsTo: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com" Date: Thursday, February 17, 2011, 11:19 PM
      I am talking about the main light fixtures on my ceiling.  It is 2010 Seneca HD.  In the living room, hallway and bedroom.  I would attach a picture but my RV is stored at a storage yard.    In general is it safe to remove the whole reflector/heat shield since the LED's don't put out as much heat as halogen's?

      Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      Reply #16 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 6430
      Attachments :Before I put in the LED's (didn't change the fixtures) they had 2 pin halogen bulbs in them.

      Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      Reply #17 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 6434
      Good price, warm white, more light. Have to try them out. K

      Kevin (Real) McCoy [KF5FUZ / WQJE447]
      ("Roscoe Ventura" Jayco Seneca HD SS 34 Diesel 2006; "Toad" Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 2007)

      Re: Some research on LED bulbs

      Reply #18 –
      Yahoo Message Number: 6443
      I have one with about 16 LEDs in it on my off-road car whip. If they dont break there they are not breaking elsewhere...alsa cracked LED lens is way different than grimding up a buch of LEDs and evaluating the contents

      From: Dennis Bradford
      Sent: February 16, 2011 7:32 PM
      To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Some research on LED bulbs


      I have many LEDs in my MH. I feel sure that every day use and handling will not break these types of LEDs. They are not in the open but in fixtures. No way can they just fall out. I'm thinking that maybe a boot heel would be very destructive but not normal handling. I would be more concerned with the many fluorescent tubes that are in out MHs. A good hard bump could dislodge them and if they break the cleanup would be extensive. As for the Texas U comment, I am tired of some do gooder trying to hold my hand for my own good. I do have a modicome of common sense.

      2006 Seneca 35GS Dmax. Ford Ranger toad.