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Towing capacity experiences

Yahoo Message Number: 6208
I am curious what people have found best to tow. We are new to RVs; got a 2005 Gulf Stream Kodiak 5500 duramax diesel. Trying to figure out what to tow. The MH is rated GCWR 26,000 and the hitch is 10,000. The gross loaded weight to be GVWR 19,500. Is it too much to ask of this rig to pull a load of 4,500 lb with wheels down (no dolly with downward weight on the hitch).

And since it does not have air brakes, what do people find is best for a brake assist in the toad?

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6209

I pull a GMC Canyon 4wd which weighs 4,520. When I had eveything scaled (loaded for an extended trip 1/3 fresh water and 1/3 black) I was at 26,180 slightly over GCVW by 180. I have no problems. We also use the Brake buddy.

What you need to watch is the GCVW.

JAYCO 35GS with a 22,000 GVW chassis 330 HP Duramax

Dave Sparke

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6210
I've got a Jayco Greyhawk 32SS gasser that fully loaded comes in right
at 18000 lbs and we tow a Saturn Vue four down that weighs 4000 lbs
using Blue Ox towbar and Brake Buddy classic.

I've towed it 22000 miles so far without a problem and that includes
crossing the Rockies twice.

While the hitch is rated for 10K, remember that you're restricted by
your GCWR of 26000. If you're within your 19500 truck limit, you should
be fine with the 4500 lb car and supplemental braking system.

Take care,
Greg

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6211
I pull a Ford Ranger 4X4 automatic (with neutral control switch added) that has a large motorcycle in the back. Truck, bike and loader weigh in at just under 5000lbs. Brake system is Roadmaster's Even Brake with wireless monitoring system. The whole setup works, tows well with my 35GS diesel.

George


Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6212
, "nutravlr"  wrote:
Quote
I am curious what people have found best to tow. We are new to RVs; got a 2005 Gulf Stream Kodiak 5500 duramax diesel. Trying to figure out what to tow. The MH is rated GCWR 26,000 and the hitch is 10,000. The gross loaded weight to be GVWR 19,500. Is it too much to ask of this rig to pull a load of 4,500 lb with wheels down (no dolly with downward weight on the hitch).

And since it does not have air brakes, what do people find is best for a brake assist in the toad?

Mine does just fine with a 9000# 28' enclosed trailer behind it. I am just a tick over the GCWR but never an issue with braking. Being a gasser it is a bit slow to get to speed but nothing too bad. Here is what it looks like all hooked up at the track. http://img37.imageshack.us/i/motorhomeandtrailer.jpg/
I have put 12,000mi on it with no issues.

Craig

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6213
We have a Four Winds 34h with the Duramax diesel, 19,500 GVWR. We were at 19,200 when I last weighed a long time ago. We have 2 toads. A Dodge Durango which weighs 5200 lbs and a Saturn Vue which I haven't weighed, but should be about 4000 lbs. And sometimes a Hobie Getaway catamaran,
Both cars are towed four wheels down. The Durango is easy for the Kodiak to tow. You can feel a slight acceleration difference between the two, and the Durango has had a tendency to push the rear slightly if it gets stuck in a rut. But, this seems to have been diminished recently with new tires on the Durango and alignment fixes and new tires on the motorhome and towed fine even in the snow.

My preference is to tow the Saturn Vue since it is lighter and gets better gas mileage when driving around. The Durango gets used if we need the extra people carrying capacity or if we are going to go drive off road. We had it before the motorhome since it was used to tow a travel trailer before.

We have a Brake Buddy Vantage Select brake system for the toads. It works fine and can be transferred between the 2 cars. Mostly I just have it set to come on only for very hard braking. It can use up the batteries on the toad so we have a charge line connected from the motorhome to the toad.

David

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6214
Towing
Question Zero is how much can you tow. That is a mathematical question based on the:

GCVW: Gross Combined Vehicle Weight, basically the limit of towing vehicle + towed vehicle.
GVW: Measured Vehicle Weight - You can get this at any CAT scale.
TVW: Towed Vehicle GVW.

Too many people tow too large a vehicle - exceeding the GCVW.Also too many people exceed their GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. This is a problem with manufacturers that do not allow for enough carrying capacity, owners who demand more and heavier equipment (slide outs, heavy features...), owners that overload their vehicles, (Do you really need that third kitchen sink?)So basically you want your tow vehicle to be (TVW

The second major issue in towing is that the towed vehicle weight should be relatively small to the gross vehicle weight of the towing vehicle. Many of the U-Hall type serious accidents happen when this rule is violated. You get sway, roll over, jack-knife, and other awful consequences when you have a light vehicle towing a relatively heavy load.(http://www.suv-rollovers.com/news.cfm?Key=u-haul-trailer-towing-accident&News=2044 )

All of these problems are safety issues. Turns out that RV drivers as a class are very safe with their driving skills and conservative driving. However, when there are problems they tend to relate to tires or weight issues, or a combination of both.

First question is how to tow? - 4 wheels up, 2 wheels up (Dolly), or 4 wheels down.I quickly got to 4 wheels down as most convenient.Decision: 4 wheels down. Easier, and if you disconnect then you have nothing left over...


Removable Front Tow Bar assembly and electric connection socket.

Second question was what was in my stable and is anything towable?Well, I just have this thing about AWD, and that turns out to be the worst thing for 4 wheels down. There was just no way to get from a Subaru to a towable vehicle without going 4 wheels up, which adds a lot of weight.Decision: Trade in the Forester.

It turns out that a lot of cars are towable, but if you have an automatic, that shuts a lot (most) of cars out. But automatic is best for off road, and traffic, so that was a must. Investigation showed that the Jeep is good off road, towable in automatic transmission, and among one of the lightest towable cars. Downside was gas millage was not good, but better than the RV.Decision: Jeep. Another good brand for towing is Saturn.I have attached Motorhome magazines complete list.


Battery disconnect prevents odometer ramp up when towed

Now things get more complicated because we were looking at automatic transmission (adds weight) and unlimited version (Increased carrying capacity - people or goods, but again with more weight (sigh)).So we kind of got incremented up in our thinking. So we went shopping and found a car at a price that was too low to believe. Suspicious we drive all the way to Houston to find out what is wrong with the car. We get there and ironically they could not sell the jeep because it was modified - the modifications made it towable. Ha!That was perfect for us, we got an even better price by negotiating, and it saved us money because we did not have to add framing (hardware to allow for the connection of the tow bar to the toad chassis) or an electrical connection (Socket to allow a cable to connect and operate turn signals and break lights) for towing.

Next Step - getting ready for towing

Next we added the hardware for the tow bar, and hardware to the RV to connect up. We had two favorite manufacturers: Blue Ox & Roadmaster. However it turned out that the modifications to the jeep were all for Roadmaster, so to save money that was the decision.

http://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/towbars/index.html

The benefit of this tow bar is that you have some latches that release pressure to unhook easily. We have been able to unhook on unlevel surface, or when not straight, and that is not possible with some systems that do not have that release.


Tow system folds up and over for stowing

The process and checklist for towing is a bit complicated (Attached).However I am doing this to be safe, and I have learned a few things that need to be added.

So far so good.

Mileage and cost:It turns out that as you would expect that you loose some diesel mileage for towing (approx 1.6 mpg).I sat down and did the math though, and it is a lot cheaper than driving tandem as we did a few months ago. Diesel prices have dropped dramatically since we bought, so that is good too.

Other observations

1)Can you feel it when you drive?I was worried about this.I had some drive issues before, and these were resolved by getting new tires with a higher load range. This was just done. So unfortunately by adding a tow vehicle I was adding a new variable before I had a lot of experience with driving on the new tires. Amazing - these new tires have made a dramatic improvement.

Tow System spread out and ready to connect. Blue safety cables.

As to the toad: So I can feel that we are heavier, but not much.I can feel on certain road conditions that I get a bit of a drag or push from the toad. That is mostly from a construction bump or something like that. It would be fun to see how different it would be if I got back to my 3,000 lb target rather than the 5,000 lb toad I ended up with.(At the CAT scales it shows as 4,540 lb when empty)

Downhill:Also I am a lot more careful downhill.I have an Alison transmission, and that coupled with an exhaust break kept me from using the breaks on most downhill runs before adding the Toad. Now I am consciously slowing down and downshifting. So that is probably the biggest impact on driving.I had one run where the grade got to 11% and I was downshifted two gears to not have to ride the break.(Hurricane Utah)

2)Parking and Maneuver:I guess I was already used to not going to certain places.I do not even attempt to go to spots where I can predict issues.I pretty much know that if I go to a major store or shopping center that there will be plenty of room for me somewhere.I also tend to prefer stations that cater to trucks and campers - Flying J, Loves, any place that advertise Diesel largely will generally have plenty of maneuver room.

I do have to watch on the freeway.I have always given one vehicle length (35') before moving over. Now that is Vehicle Length plus toad!So now I am giving about 50' for safety, and most knowledgeable drivers will flash at a distance somewhere close to that.I can generally see the shadow of the toad on one side or the other, and that gives me a visual cue. So far I have not had any issues remembering that it is back there. And my old rule still works in a pinch.

The most serious issue is that you cannot back up.I did get to one point in Oregon where I had to disconnect to do a U turn after missing a campground.

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6215
, "nutravlr"  wrote:
Quote
I am curious what people have found best to tow. We are new to RVs; got a 2005 Gulf Stream Kodiak 5500 duramax diesel. Trying to figure out what to tow. The MH is rated GCWR 26,000 and the hitch is 10,000. The gross loaded weight to be GVWR 19,500. Is it too much to ask of this rig to pull a load of 4,500 lb with wheels down (no dolly with downward weight on the hitch).

And since it does not have air brakes, what do people find is best for a brake assist in the toad?

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR REPLIES. VERY THOUGHTFUL AND USEFUL. January 12, 3:30 p.m.

Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6245
I tow a Geo Tracker (2400# maybe) with my 2008 Dutchmen 34H Duramax/Allsion 6 speed loaded at 19,500 does not know its there.

I also now tow a 20' trailer with my offroad car in it (3200 Trailer+2400 Car+500 estimated other crap) ~ 6100 Total. I still sometimes have to check i have a trailer behind me. I only can tell if I need to start on a hill but it I have forward momentum its easy to go. As far as the trailer tracking - its sweet! smooth and perfect. Its a Haulmark TH85X20WT2 and rated at 7K GVWR so it matches my total load pretty close if maxed out.

I have the exhaust brake which makes the downhills sweet. I bet my MoHo brakes last 50K miles.......But the Haulmark has FOUR wheel brakes on independent suspension.

From: nutravlr
To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 1:40:49 PM
Subject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Towing capacity experiences


Re: Towing capacity experiences

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 6249
I have towed a 26' boat behind my 2008 Four Winds 34H Duramax Diesel and it does just fine...agree the airbrake is a big plus.