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RV.Net post

Yahoo Message Number: 2007

After reading this month's Highways magazine, I found that (1) Guaranty RV in Oregon had received prestigious recognition for customer service from a trade magazine(page 15), and (2) received a petition from Action Line concerning a customer dissatisfaction issue (page 49). It seems a customer owned a Jayco Seneca and following service by Guaranty RV discovered damage to the dash panel where Guaranty RV accessed the fuse panel. Rather than owning up to the damage, Guaranty advised the customer that the fuse panel was actually located on the driver's side of the cab, not the passenger side, and that they were not working on the passenger side, and therefore, could not have caused the damage.

Anyway, I posted a comment about the industry that wasn't taken too well by other post readers:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/22167066/gotomsg/22168986.cfm#22168986

The responses clearly demonstrate the fact that some of the industry owned forums have become very "pro-industry" by design and no longer present true facts upon which the discerning consumer can rely for information about recreational vehicles.

Denny

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Re: RV.Net post

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2008
Well, I doubt if I will be in their good books now either.

Don

On 5-Dec-08, at 7:41 PM,

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2010

Guess the moderator didn't like my comment about the forums being owned by the RV industry... he deleted my post.

Denny

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2011
Johnny T is a strange guy at times and some of the things he deletes have amazed me. He has sent me emails apologizing and in one case said "you were right but I didn't want to see a feud started." Oh well.

More to follow. I've got another note in my draft basket and when I get finished updating Quickbooks for November investment performance (well, my investments have been in a submarine and keep diving), checks and VISA charges I'll complete it as I've got to check on one detail.

Don


On 5-Dec-08, at 9:32 PM,

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2012
Denny, this is something I've noticed for 4 or 5 years. Many many owners feel that they have to stick up for and support their dealer and manufacturer regardless of how badly they have been treated with shoddy service and product deficiencies. Some of the most loyal are Winnie owners. When we had ours it just amazed me. It was like owning a Winnie is a way of life with them. One fellow I was at a rally with could never stop raving about how great Winnie is and I think the first thing he did every morning was get up and salute the Winnie flag. It was like he was continually trying to make himself believe he'd bought the right MH. He went to the factory in Iowa and was there for a week+ for a bunch of fixes and felt it was an honor.

One of the most amazing in that regard was rebelsbeach who owned a portion of iRV2 and who has now sold it and his last motorhome. He started with an Horizon that had every problem one could imagine - but he stuck up for them (I always thought it was because Winnie pays to support iRV2). He too was flattered that Winnie invited him to the factory for fixes. When I asked about being paid for diesel fuel he couldn't figure out why - as it was an honor!!!! Finally enough was enough and he got a Newmar Essex. So we are talking huge dollars now for most of us. That turned out to be constant problems and during one of his visits to the factory he fell in love with their new London Aire (not sure what they sold for but I gather it was north of a half million bucks) and at that point I stopped following his adventures. Didn't matter what happened, he immediately defended the manufacturer.

I'm not about to be a shill for any manufacturer. I'll simply call it as I see it and report our experiences.

Don


On 5-Dec-08, at 8:16 PM,

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2013

Don,

Not sure what a "shill" is... must be Canadian, but I kinda like the sound of it... thanks for your support.

Denny

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2014
not canadian, carny speak. A shill is the guy planted in the audience telling you how cool this thing is.
Morrigan

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2020


Quote
Not sure what a "shill" is... must be Canadian, but I kinda like the
sound of it... thanks for your support.

In my business it's a product whore :-)

I do product evaluation and reviews for the remote control airplane and
helicopter hobby along with writing a monthly column for one of the
magazines. I know guys who never saw a product they didn't like and
consequently some of them are quite in demand by manufacturers. Some
magazines prefer these kind of reviewers because it boosts their
advertising revenue. It's a vicious circle :-(

I've managed to maintain my integrity and have enough products coming
for review I never felt the need to like everything. I've always given
the manufacturers the courtesy of seeing my negative comments along with
the positive ones and from there it's up to the editors to decide
whether to print it or not and how to edit it. I've never had a magazine
change my review, but I have had a couple of manufacturers ask the
magazine not to go ahead with the review when there have been enough
negatives reported during testing. To their credit, the follow-up
production versions have been improved so we know they took our review
to heart.

To me, that's the report card of my candidness and truthfulness.

The other side of product reviews for publication, and I'm sure it
changes from industry to industry, is you seldom see negative reviews in
print. In my business that's mostly because there is limited page space
and so many really good products to cover. The feeling is why spend
valuable space on bad products. So the lesson many learn in this hobby
is to read between the lines. If there is a product out there that you
don't see written up anyplace it might be for two reasons:
1. the product has too many problems
2. the manufacturer isn't an advertiser

I can't speak for the RV industry, but it is clear that product lines
from Fleetwood dominate the magazines if only by the sheer number of
products they produce compared to some others like Jayco.

Of course I'd be happy to have all the manufacturers let me have a
motorhome for a month of thorough testing and I'd be glad to write it up
for them :-)

Take care,
Greg

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2022

Fleetwood has come a long way since the issues raised 10 years ago. At that time, a Discovery owners club consisting of several hundred members petitioned Fleetwood for a better product, and it happened. Fleetwood agreed to an "arbitration committee" of RV owners; if anyone had an issue, it could be addressed properly in that forum. Fleetwood also reviewed several recommendations of club members, and incorporated these improvements in later models of the motorhome as well as other Fleetwood models. Today Fleetwood builds a better product because of the efforts of many owners.

I think I will add these comments to the rv.net post as well..

Denny

Re: RV.Net post

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 2025
I wonder if Fleetwood is going to make it by Dec 15 - the call date on a $100 million debenture issue. I bought some Fleetwood stock in October (along with Winnie and Monaco) expecting one of them not to make it - and maybe all three. I told DW I might just be throwing the money away. Winnie promptly dropped 60% and then the other two tanked. At least I knew the risk.

A Fleetwood owner here in our park figures they are probably gone. Frankly, for the sake of the employees I hope not.

Don


On 6-Dec-08, at 10:58 AM,