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White knuckles

Yahoo Message Number: 5512
...just got home from a 2000 mile interstate trip in my '06 Seneca 35GS and my knuckles were definitely white. This thing was all over the road and almost impossible to keep in the lane. The water tanks were empty, 1/2 propane and fuel, and there was very little wind. The coach has 15k miles and has a Henderson rear track bar, Bilstein shocks, and a Roadmaster front anti sway bar.
My question is; where can I get some good practical advice on how to modify this chassis. I need first person accounts of what works and what doesn't work. If you've had similar experiences with your Kodiak, please let me know what the cure is. I like this the house portion of this RV, but life is too short to drive it like it is. Please share your stories.
Thanks,
Rich

Re: White knuckles

Reply #1 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5513
have you weighed it?

front axle, rear axle and all four corners.

has it had an alignment?

don

Re: White knuckles

Reply #2 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5514
Hi Don,

Front axle 6300
Rear axle 13900

...had an alignment at Josam in Orlando ("supposed to be excellent")

Re: White knuckles

Reply #3 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5515
I personally think you have other issues with your chassis or tires. I have an 08 35GS and have been able to drive it with one hand on the wheel since the day we took delivery. We did add the Henderson track bar but that was because of going into turns on 2 lane roads while towing (tail push). Xway driving has never been a problem (trucks wind etc).. Just turned 15,000 today.

Dave Sparke

Re: White knuckles

Reply #4 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5516
Thanks for the comment, Dave.

This RV constantly drifts and weaves and acts like it has very little weight on the front axle. The steering wheel can be turned about 3-4 inches (at the rim) in either direction before the steering input is felt. Do you think adding the 19000 lb rear springs would help?

Re: White knuckles

Reply #5 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5517
Rich . . . Josam has done some work for me. They came highly recommended and do have a good reputation. I had them do a 4 wheel alignment. They told me that they generally follow the published specifications, but occasionally have motorhomes that wander, so they adjust the alignment (I think he said they tow in the front some more). If you live in the central FL area, I would take it to them, have them drive it, then tell them to fix it!

My '07 35GS is not a white knuckle drive, BUT it's not a one hander either, I'm going to try adding some decent shocks when I get back to FL (I've added front sway, rear trac bar, extra leaf springs so far).

George



Re: White knuckles

Reply #6 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5518

That may be the issue since mine came with the 19's.You also may have some other steering issues. (gear box, tie rod or something). I don't think you should have that kind of play in the front end.

Weight wise you are about where I am fully loaded including (full fuel and propane, 1/3 fresh water and about 1/4- 1/3 black). I scaled mine in April on my way to Gulf Shores and I had 7,000 front and 14,660 rear.

I take it that you just got the coach?..

Dave Sparke

Re: White knuckles

Reply #7 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5519
George,

Mine use to be like that. Jayco upgraded the springs, I added the trac-bar, Bilsteins and added extra Supersprings. No longer a problem. Lot of weight in the back makes the front pretty lite. No problem with trucks or wind any longer.

Keith
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed
From: George Hooper
Sender: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 20:49:31 -0400
To:
ReplyTo: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: White knuckles

Rich . . . Josam has done some work for me. They came highly recommended and do have a good reputation. I had them do a 4 wheel alignment. They told me that they generally follow the published specifications, but occasionally have motorhomes that wander, so they adjust the alignment (I think he said they tow in the front some more). If you live in the central FL area, I would take it to them, have them drive it, then tell them to fix it!

My '07 35GS is not a white knuckle drive, BUT it's not a one hander either, I'm going to try adding some decent shocks when I get back to FL (I've added front sway, rear trac bar, extra leaf springs so far).

George



Re: White knuckles

Reply #8 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5520
I have the identical situation on my 05 Endura 6316 with 27k miles that has Stabil-Ride from the factory that is supposed to prevent the instability described.

Checked and adjusted the toe from a toe out condition to the proper toe in.
Slight improvement.

Checked the lash in the steering components several times.
Can't detect a problem.

Jacked up the front to check wheel bearing play.
Felt fine.

Installed a front & rear track bar (Blue-ox TigerTrac) and a Steering stabilizer (Blue-ox TruCenter).
No change. Maybe a little worse.

Increased the toe in.
No change.

I don't have a level pad to check the caster myself so I am planning a professional alignment after this season. I have read that negative caster causes steering instability such that the vehicle never wants to go straight. Factory spec. is 3 - 5 degrees positive, and most sources I have read advised to get it to the full 5 Degrees. The front axle is shimmed with wedges under the springs to adjust the caster. My hope is that it has a caster problem and an alignment will end the constant adrenaline production. The 5th entry on this web page could be a description of a similar story with a good ending.

http://www.rvmechanic.com/current_category.181/Forum.69876/offset.2760/forum_thread_full.html?print_page=1

Charles


Re: White knuckles

Reply #9 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5521
I also have '06 35GS with over 46K miles. Just returned from a 8 week, 6,500 mile vacation. Suspension upgrades have been Koni's and Super Springs. I have yet to experience the 'white knuckle' handling problems that others describe. The box rocks big time when going out a curb break at a gas station at 3 to 5 MPH, but that is the extent of my handling complaints. Thinking that a rear trac-bar will reduce this side-to-side box sway. I like my Kodiak and I'm looking forward to 150K miles on the odometer before I hang it up.

Re: White knuckles

Reply #10 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5523
Speed can affect handling. I run around 60 to 62 mph most of the time. Running at speeds over 65 affects handling a lot.
Are you towing anything?
None of the above items have caused white knuckle handling. Most of my driving is one handed. Even in high side winds.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: White knuckles

Reply #11 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5524
Russ, that is probably one of the most annoying things about the Kodiak - the box rock at low speeds over curb breaks, railway tracks, etc. This is a characteristic of all motorhomes based on our experience with 3 prior class A's - 2 DPs and one gas. But with the Kodiak it is far worse than the A's. The others were not even annoying.

Of course, they are all top heavy and one feels that in the handling but it is a given based on the height.

We have not made any modifications to the suspension of our Greyhawk 32SS Gasser even though I keep thinking about changing shocks and/or airbags. Not sure how long I'll think about it - probably next spring as we are now too close to FLA departure time and my main concern now is getting base plates installed on a new toad.

My feeling (and this applies to all brands) is that the designers are really at fault and the MH manufacturers really should modify the suspensions to get the wobble reduced as much as possible. If our cars performed like this we'd be very unhappy.

Don

Re: White knuckles

Reply #12 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5525
Rich and group,
We have the '07 Bigfoot 32 on the '06 Kodiak chassis and have done all the mods that definately help.
Swaybars, steering stablizer, shocks.

An additional item that I never thought to check was the front tires being balanced.
After unusual wear I inspected and crawled under and found that they did not have any weights. Did they fall off?
The chassis came from McCormick Motors. Goodyears, 245 x 70 x 19.5

We had an alignment with new front tires and balanced.
The rear outside duals have some of the rim edge weights on the inside and have been wearing evenly.

There was a Seneca at our storage area (same tires and wheels), I crawled under to check for weights and did not find any.

Has this been the finding of others that the stock front tires have not been balanced from the get go ?
Jeff

-

Re: White knuckles

Reply #13 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5526
The company I retired from built the machinery that checked tires and wheel assemblies that came down the assembly line. Only front tires were balanced. That does not mean that correct tires got put on front.
Best
Ron Hall

Re: White knuckles

Reply #14 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5527
Rich,

You didn't mention adding a front track bar. I installed the suspension upgrades myself. Koni shocks, rear track bar, and front anti sway bar. But ran out of time to get the front track bar done before a trip from New Mexico to California. Later after adding the front track bar and going on the same trip there was a definite improvement in the steering. It was much more precise. Unfortunately, the steering effort is still way too light, but at least it is comfortable to drive.

Which also brings me to my other suggestion. It took me a long time to adjust to driving to the very light steering. And that is to not overcorrect the steering while driving on the freeway. With both hands on the steering wheel, it is very hard to not overcorrect. I find it much easier on the freeway to put my left elbow on the window sill and just use my left hand to steer. Having my left elbow anchored keeps me from oversteering. I usually drive at 65mph. At slower speeds the steering feel is not as light and so the handling seems better.

Also, sometimes we tow a Saturn Vue and other time a Dodge Durango. The Dodge Durango seems to be heavy enough to wag the tail of the motorhome some while driving on freeways with ruts.

David

Re: White knuckles

Reply #15 –
Yahoo Message Number: 5537
I too felt the strange light steering and tail wage caused by the Kodiak chassis. I just added a total of six leafs strings (Three on each side of the rear suspension) and now the unit handles much better and not this much rock and rolling. I finally, don't scrape when going into driveways and the ride is much better since I was riding on my bump stops.

Eugene