Edge or other chips for Seneca? June 17, 2012, 10:14:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9285Just bought a used 07 seneca and would like to put an edge w/juice or other programmer to help out the duramax when I haul my race trailer. I currently have an 05 duramax truck with the edge with juice and it worked great hauling my toyhauler. Wondering what everyone else is running before I buy.Thanks, Ryan in Nashville Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #1 – June 18, 2012, 01:19:32 am Yahoo Message Number: 9286Ryan, I am in the same boat, we just purchased a used 2007 Seneca and I am adding the Edge Evolution CTS. I called Edge directly and asked them what the best solution was and they recommended the Evolution. What I wanted was a device to monitor all of the temperatures, especially EGT, so I am adding the probe as well using their EAS "expandable" starter/probe kit. I plan to tow a classic car in an enclosed trailer and need a tad bit more power.Good Luck, Pat Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #2 – June 18, 2012, 04:58:43 am Yahoo Message Number: 9287Popular programer is PPE. http://www.pacificp.com/I have a DialbloSport Predator. Monitor temperatures with a ScanGaugeII. I have a separate EGT gauge. Regardless of who you get you gauge display from. You will need to drill and tap the passenger side manifold to install the probe. Others have got their ECM programed by EFI live. But they still need a display.Good place for information on Duramax's is Diesel Place Medium Duty Truck forum.BestRon Hall Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #3 – June 18, 2012, 09:48:37 am Yahoo Message Number: 9288Thanks Pat! Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #4 – June 18, 2012, 09:50:20 am Yahoo Message Number: 9289Thanks Ron! Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #5 – June 18, 2012, 09:54:59 am Yahoo Message Number: 9290I just recently had the Edge CTS installed and have been very happy with it. Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #6 – June 18, 2012, 10:47:33 am Yahoo Message Number: 9291What are you towing? How much does it weigh? I have a 24' box trailer that I carry my off road car in - it weighs a lot less less than a road car - about 1/2. I can tell you that super lite car + gear etc. puts me at MAX GVWR (due to tongue weight) and MAX GCWR. My coach is a Dutchmen on a 19,500 chassis - So I have 6500 pounds left over for towing. My coach fully loaded, water etc. etc. put the coach on GVWR.I am pretty sure the 07 Seneca was a 23,000 GVWR / 26,000 GCWR vehicle and weighs in at close to 23,000 loaded up ready to go which leaves you a whopping 3,000 - ish pounds left over for a trailer. [sugarless of the 10,000 hitch they put on the back end of it]A few items here:If I loaded my trailer with a road showcar I would be way over weight - by a mile = UnsafeI did not buy a Seneca as they (mostly) can only tow about 3-4,000 pound - enough to flat-tow a jeep etc.I do not require a tuner at all to carry my coach and the loaded trailer even up the steepest grades in SoCal. I would not even bother to install one as it runs like the devil now as it sits.From: Ryan To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSent: Sunday, June 17, 2012 7:14 PMSubject: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?Just bought a used 07 seneca and would like to put an edge w/juice or other programmer to help out the duramax when I haul my race trailer. I currently have an 05 duramax truck with the edge with juice and it worked great hauling my toyhauler. Wondering what everyone else is running before I buy.Thanks, Ryan in Nashville Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #7 – June 18, 2012, 12:03:23 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9292I don't race cars just drag atv's. 24' race trailer with probably another 1500lbs of bikes and tools is all I will have in it. I drove the seneca home and it is a turd (imo) going up the hills in southern TN. I believe you are correct on the weights of the seneca and I typically don't carry full water on the road as I usually fill up at the tracks.I'm putting bags on the rear and looking for the programmer now. Thanks! Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #8 – June 18, 2012, 03:10:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9293Seneca GVWR was 22,000 for 2007 and I think that it was the same for all years that it was produced on the Kodiak. Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #9 – June 18, 2012, 04:06:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9294MessageAnd has a 8,000# rated hitchI am all for safety and am not arguing with that, but using good common sense is a little more realistic. I have no concerns on towing a 7,000# enclosed car trailer and car, with perfectly operating trailer brakes behind my Seneca with an exhaust brake.I will travel between 55 and 60 MPH on level 1 or 2. For the most part I will be flat towing a CRV, which would be barely legal using the numbers below.My Seneca did just fine pulling a 6% grade by itself, so I agree a tuner may not be needed or can be run at low levels. Monitoring engine performance is the main goal and might as well bump the HP a tad.My 2 cents Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #10 – June 18, 2012, 04:42:42 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9295Actually, our 2007 32SS came with a 10,000 receiver. It was manufactured 2nd quarter of 2007. Even though literature for 2008 also said 8,000 lbs I believe they were 10,000 lbs as well.Donps. Of course, one could only tow GCWR less actual vehicle weight and for that to be 10,000 lbs ours would have to have been run with no "stuff" in the holds and with the driver and passengers inflated with helium. Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #11 – June 18, 2012, 04:59:40 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9296Hi Pat -The hitch rating is completely MEANINGLESS. I have seen plenty of 10,000# rated hitches on a coach with a 3,000# trailer capacity due to GCWR / GVWR rating that TRUM any hitch rating. Its a sales gimmick or a matter of what physically "fits" the chassis - not the rating of the vehicle - even more so in a two-stage vehicle.So your coach likely weighs very, very close to 22,000# loaded up with all you crap, water, propane etc. Add to that 1,000#s of tongue weight you may be over GVWR + your 7,000# (conservative) trailer loaded you are at 29,000 GCWR = over the rating.Keep in mind that should you have a "incident" insurance companies have been declining coverage due to overloading, over GVWR / GCWR etc. etc. One friend of mine just sold me his trailer as it made it total length just one-foot over maximum legal length - so he had another trailer built so he would be legal just for this reason.This is why my next coach will be on a Freightliner Business Class / M2 chassis or heavier duty than that.From: Pat-Syl Storer To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, June 18, 2012 1:06 PMSubject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?And has a 8,000# rated hitchI am all for safety and am not arguing with that, but using good common sense is a little more realistic. I have no concerns on towing a 7,000# enclosed car trailer and car, with perfectly operating trailer brakes behind my Seneca with an exhaust brake.I will travel between 55 and 60 MPH on level 1 or 2. For the most part I will be flat towing a CRV, which would be barely legal using the numbers below.My Seneca did just fine pulling a 6% grade by itself, so I agree a tuner may not be needed or can be run at low levels. Monitoring engine performance is the main goal and might as well bump the HP a tad.My 2 cents Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #12 – June 18, 2012, 07:44:30 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9298I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #13 – June 18, 2012, 07:56:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9299I know I will probably get "flamed" for this, but all the research indicates the weak link is the "parking pawl" on the tranny. That is the biggest difference between the Allison 1000 and 2000 trannies, gear ratios are almost identical. Any chassis that normally has the 2000 is rated for 30,000 GCVW and comes with air brakes and the touch pad shifter in lieu of the column mounted shift lever and standard parking brake which is rated at 26,000 GCVW. The safety message on the 1000 says "overloading could result in damage and sudden movement of the vehicle". From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ScottSent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:44 PMTo: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comCc: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #14 – June 18, 2012, 08:03:34 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9300The issue not only engine / transmission / brakes etc. but things like wheelbase, type of frame etc. etc. that goes into the GVWR / GCWR ratings.You explanation will not get very far in court if/when you have an 'incident' out there.From: David Sparke To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, June 18, 2012 4:56 PMSubject: RE: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?I know I will probably get "flamed" for this, but all the research indicates the weak link is the "parking pawl" on the tranny. That is the biggest difference between the Allison 1000 and 2000 trannies, gear ratios are almost identical. Any chassis that normally has the 2000 is rated for 30,000 GCVW and comes with air brakes and the touch pad shifter in lieu of the column mounted shift lever and standard parking brake which is rated at 26,000 GCVW. The safety message on the 1000 says "overloading could result in damage and sudden movement of the vehicle". From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ScottSent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:44 PMTo: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comCc: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #15 – June 18, 2012, 08:04:33 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9301Your gasser is way lighter - Engine and genset weighs less etc. etc. etc. Plus those new gas engines kick ass too!From: Scott To: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com" Cc: "KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com" Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 4:44 PMSubject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Edge or other chips for Seneca?I have a 33ds with 8.1 liter and loaded it weighs 18,000lbs. When I tow up my rock crawler it ads 7,000 lbs. So going down the road Im at about 25k. glad i did not buy the seneca Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #16 – June 18, 2012, 08:33:55 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9302the magic number (26,000) is more of a cdl reason.the seneca's everything is underrated @ 2,6000.i've moved to the dark side and now have a gcwr @ 80,000 lbs.don Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #17 – June 18, 2012, 10:14:38 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9303New gas engines? The 8.1 was a piece of history and GM killed production - which also put the boots to Workhorse's gas line of chassis since it relied on the 8.1. In fact, it now looks like Workhorse Chassis might well be gone for good. Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #18 – June 18, 2012, 10:16:24 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9304That is exactly why we didn't buy a diesel. We were towing a Tahoe LTZ behind an Ambassador with an ISC and wanted to continue towing the 5700 lb Tahoe and we figured the Seneca could easily get overloaded and thus bought the Greyhawk on Kodiak.Don Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #19 – June 18, 2012, 10:18:50 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9305But so many states exempt RV's that I'm not sure that is why it was set at 26,000 - after all GM did put out units with higher GCWR's (Thor had one with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and it had the beefier Allison in it.) I doubt they would have incurred that cost if it was not necessary.Don Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #20 – June 19, 2012, 12:35:53 am Yahoo Message Number: 9308I used a PPE and now a Quadzilla. I'm glad to hear your going to use a pyrometer. Tuning this engine was the best thing for performance.Good Luck Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #21 – June 19, 2012, 12:38:05 am Yahoo Message Number: 9309I cannot believe that any STATE exempts any RV from a GVWR / GCWR that has been submitted / approved by the manufacturer / NTSB etc. etc.From: Don Leslie To: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:18 PMSubject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?But so many states exempt RV's that I'm not sure that is why it was set at 26,000 - after all GM did put out units with higher GCWR's (Thor had one with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and it had the beefier Allison in it.) I doubt they would have incurred that cost if it was not necessary.Don Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #22 – June 19, 2012, 09:29:16 am Yahoo Message Number: 9311They sure DO. What I'm talking about is precisely what you mentioned, that that is licensing. Check Florida for example. An 85 year old geezer can buy a Marathon Prevost and attached his Hummer 2 and drive that combo on a BASIC license. I used this example to piss off the Minister of Transport in Ontario because at 24,200 lbs we have to have a higher license (similar to a CDL) and yet she was letting in these geezers (I can use that term because I'm one of them) driving a combo that weighs in at over 50,000 lbs. I waved our charter of rights and freedoms at her and quoted a section that we are all to be treated equally. If I'm a danger driving such a rig (and I had 2 that were well over the 24000 lb limit) then surely that guy from Florida is as well.Many states are just like Florida. If it is NOT a commercial vehicle no CDL is required. One photographer in Texas was fine. He travelled in his motorhome. He decided to have a fancy paint job done promoting his business. Ha, they caught him. Now he had a commercial vehicle because of the advertising on it and needed a CDL and also had to have all vehicle standards applied as well.In California you have the license requirement bumped after 40 feet. When we got a 41 footer it had a CA video explaining the requirement. At the end it said if you don't live here and you are legal in your jurisdiction then you can come in and be legal here.I'm heading for golf now but will dig up the licensing table by state and province and attach it later.Don Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #23 – June 19, 2012, 10:02:47 am Yahoo Message Number: 9312That's exactly why I keep my class "A" current.... Nobody can say I shouldn't be driving it if something ever would happen..From: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don LeslieSent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 9:29 AMTo: KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?They sure DO. What I'm talking about is precisely what you mentioned, that that is licensing. Check Florida for example. An 85 year old geezer can buy a Marathon Prevost and attached his Hummer 2 and drive that combo on a BASIC license. I used this example to piss off the Minister of Transport in Ontario because at 24,200 lbs we have to have a higher license (similar to a CDL) and yet she was letting in these geezers (I can use that term because I'm one of them) driving a combo that weighs in at over 50,000 lbs. I waved our charter of rights and freedoms at her and quoted a section that we are all to be treated equally. If I'm a danger driving such a rig (and I had 2 that were well over the 24000 lb limit) then surely that guy from Florida is as well.Many states are just like Florida. If it is NOT a commercial vehicle no CDL is required. One photographer in Texas was fine. He travelled in his motorhome. He decided to have a fancy paint job done promoting his business. Ha, they caught him. Now he had a commercial vehicle because of the advertising on it and needed a CDL and also had to have all vehicle standards applied as well.In California you have the license requirement bumped after 40 feet. When we got a 41 footer it had a CA video explaining the requirement. At the end it said if you don't live here and you are legal in your jurisdiction then you can come in and be legal here.I'm heading for golf now but will dig up the licensing table by state and province and attach it later.DonOn 2012-06-19, at 12:38 AM, Victor Burns wrote:I cannot believe that any STATE exempts any RV from a GVWR / GCWR that has been submitted / approved by the manufacturer / NTSB etc. etc.centerFrom: Don Leslie grandriver125@...>To:KodiakChassisClassC@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:18 PMSubject: Re: [KodiakChassisClassC] Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca?But so many states exempt RV's that I'm not sure that is why it was set at 26,000 - after all GM did put out units with higher GCWR's (Thor had one with a GCWR of 30,000 lbs and it had the beefier Allison in it.) I doubt they would have incurred that cost if it was not necessary. DonOn 2012-06-18, at 8:33 PM, don_mcl wrote:the magic number (26,000) is more of a cdl reason.the seneca's everything is underrated @ 2,6000.i've moved to the dark side and now have a gcwr @ 80,000 lbs.don Quote Selected
Re: Edge or other chips for Seneca? Reply #24 – June 19, 2012, 12:06:44 pm Yahoo Message Number: 9313After reading these posts, I realize how lucky I am. My 32B (1 slide) stays under 19,500 loaded and I can tow my armor plated rock crawler with tools and stay well under 26K GCWR. The biggest problem climbing grades is cornering to fast. My factory spare tire mounts between the frame rails and my wife can use all the extra storage. (Happy Wife is a Happy Life!)Thanks guys, JDan Quote Selected